The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

[tallicay2k]

After looking through Twitter at #AltonTowers it seems like many people have switched their focus from the accident itself, to the hatred of Kay Burley.

Too right, I strongly felt for Nick and I said earlier that he was the proffesional one and kept his cool. Total respect to the guy.

[Themeparksandy1981]

Retheming wouldn't cost then lots. Just new signage and remove the smiley faces. The layout and the theming could stay the same. I just think with all the faults it's had I think it now wrong to call it the Smiler.

[xxbennxx]

Burley was on a witch hunt, her behaviour was unprofessional at best, but for the most part, completely unacceptable.

I imagine a public apology is not far off.

[TsungUK]

That sky interview was terrible, she was using the Anne Robinison method of interviewing. Don't allow someone to answer before re-asking the same question or making a statement as if it was "fact". It's one of the reasons I don't bother watching TV anymore nor having a TV Licence.

For Good interview techniques watch Jeremy Paxman on any Newsnight (when he did it). He would be confrontational but always allow the interviewee to answer the question before the next question (usually referring back to what was just said to re-enforce the point). Bad interview techniques, Ann Robinson (watchdog any), and now Kay Burley, repeat like a parrot, go for mis-quotes, don't bother listening to answer and asking follow up questions finally never allow the interviewee to answer without interrupting (basically being very rude).

After the first question and response, the correct question she should of asked was. "What are these additional safety procedures you are putting in place?" Not "Oh the rides were unsafe before" rubbish!

[Jammydodger]

I'm certain they won't do a retheme, but it would be distasteful to leave any references to "marmalising" peoples bodies. I wonder if this means we won't see The Sanctuary return this year because of the incident.

[TheBeast]

After looking through Twitter at #AltonTowers it seems like many people have switched their focus from the accident itself, to the hatred of Kay Burley.

What, and you can blame them?

Thats why I signed the petition, to look for a public apology. I cant see Sky sacking the woman, no chance, however I think a public apology is definitely in order for her out of line "interview". Varney made us all proud in that interview, its safe to say, by staying strong unnder the scrutiny of that...

I can see a retheme being a potentially justified use of resources. Nobody is smiling any more, so I think signs telling us to Smile Always and to Get Corrected are a bit unnecessary and mocking really. We will have to see, if it does re-open for next year I expect a new theme or at least less of the original theme

[Master_feedback]

I'm slightly surprised that they're staying closed for a 5th day.

Saying that, maybe they're making sure that everything is watertight and ready to go for a re-opening on Monday.

HSE have control of AT at this time they will no hand it back untill they have finished all their investigation AT can do nothing until they are Handed back the site

it is in effect ...as far as HSE are concerned for want of a better description a crime scene the results could form the bases of any court case and prosecutions

it unlikely but possible AT could be closed till mid next week

my only experiences with this scale of investigation resulted in lose of our site for 24hrs but it was in no way as high profile or with a direct potential of danger to general public
http://www.healthandsafetyatwork.com/hs ... assessment
"

[daboywunda]

HSE have control of AT at this time they will no hand it back untill they have finished all their investigation AT can do nothing until they are Handed back the site
"

The HSE report from the other day states that they only have control of The Smiler and that it was "Alton Towers' decision on when to reopen"....

[Dan]

I'm slightly surprised that they're staying closed for a 5th day.

Saying that, maybe they're making sure that everything is watertight and ready to go for a re-opening on Monday.

HSE have control of AT at this time they will no hand it back untill they have finished all their investigation AT can do nothing until they are Handed back the site

it is in effect ...as far as HSE are concerned for want of a better description a crime scene the results could form the bases of any court case and prosecutions

it unlikely but possible AT could be closed till mid next week

my only experiences with this scale of investigation resulted in lose of our site for 24hrs but it was in no way as high profile or with a direct potential of danger to general public
http://www.healthandsafetyatwork.com/hs ... assessment
"

It's already been established that HSE do not have control of the entire park.

They have served a Prohibition Notice on The Smiler but this does not extend to any other attraction at the resort.

It is up to Merlin when the park re-opens, not HSE.

[tgm999]

I'm slightly surprised that they're staying closed for a 5th day.

Saying that, maybe they're making sure that everything is watertight and ready to go for a re-opening on Monday.

HSE have control of AT at this time they will no hand it back untill they have finished all their investigation AT can do nothing until they are Handed back the site

it is in effect ...as far as HSE are concerned for want of a better description a crime scene the results could form the bases of any court case and prosecutions

it unlikely but possible AT could be closed till mid next week

my only experiences with this scale of investigation resulted in lose of our site for 24hrs but it was in no way as high profile or with a direct potential of danger to general public
http://www.healthandsafetyatwork.com/hs ... assessment
"

It's already been established that HSE do not have control of the entire park.

They have served a Prohibition Notice on The Smiler but this does not extend to any other attraction at the resort.

It is up to Merlin when the park re-opens, not HSE.

Master_feedback Here's the statement http://press.hse.gov.uk/2015/health-and ... on-towers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MizzHanza]

Saw this article and about half way down the page it says surgeons managed to save her leg! I really hope it's true!
http://tab.co.uk/2015/06/06/second-stud ... -hospital/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kavanagh21]

One thing that could be a concern here.

Having read some of the articles, it is clear that there will be legal proceedings taken against Merlin (obviously) but there is a clear suggestion of the push for criminal charges. Quote: "It is expected serious consideration will be given to criminal prosecutions". Presumably, given that it seems to be the consensus that there was some degree of human error at play here, the criminal liability will fall down to the person who made the error as they may not have followed 'procedure'?

I really hate this kind of "we need to pin this on someone" and "someone must pay" culture. Yes, Merlin will pay heavily for this event financially, but why is there the suggestion that someone has to be prosecuted criminally? I'm almost certain no ride operator, tech staff or park management meant for that to happen.

[langolier]

What do you think the new safety procedures are likely to entail?

And why do you think these new procedures have resulted in the temporary closure of 2 rides at chessington in particular - Dragon's fury and Rattlesnake.

I would guess it's something to do with how they go about operating the ride in operator mode, more checks they have to make before moving carriages and the like?

[Jammydodger]

I should imagine it will just be criminal proceedings against company without it being aimed at one person. Its highly unlikely anyone will face jail time as no one was killed, otherwise it would have been manslaughter and then they probably would have to pin point the one responsible.

As for the adjustments, they've mentioned that the 2 chessy rides were shut because they needed further work, so what does X:\ do differently that didn't need further work? It must be something physical rather than training otherwise that would have been shut too?

[Danny]

I think this accident will seriously affect the throughputs of the rides currently closed for this. Queues will much a lot longer and slower moving as they will probably delay sending cars round until they meet the second set of blocks in stead one the one gap they leave.

[TheBeast]

What do you think the new safety procedures are likely to entail?

And why do you think these new procedures have resulted in the temporary closure of 2 rides at chessington in particular - Dragon's fury and Rattlesnake.

I would guess it's something to do with how they go about operating the ride in operator mode, more checks they have to make before moving carriages and the like?

I dont know what it is they are doing, however they have been closed because both rides are multi-car rides where a colision is possible but unlikely. Obviosuly, Saw has been closed because of its similar nature to the Smiler and the factbit was made by Gerstlauer

As for the adjustments, they've mentioned that the 2 chessy rides were shut because they needed further work, so what does X:\ do differently that didn't need further work? It must be something physical rather than training otherwise that would have been shut too?

X:/ No Way Out has several places where it used to stop, those can be used to stop the cars when required. That makes the circuit safer, and the cars go at much lower speeds throughout the circuit

[TomL]

I'm thinking the new restrictions may be the addition of extra block brakes or more simply just maybe saying that there needs to be an extra block between the trains rather than just one?

[SPAD]

One thing that could be a concern here.

Having read some of the articles, it is clear that there will be legal proceedings taken against Merlin (obviously) but there is a clear suggestion of the push for criminal charges. Quote: "It is expected serious consideration will be given to criminal prosecutions". Presumably, given that it seems to be the consensus that there was some degree of human error at play here, the criminal liability will fall down to the person who made the error as they may not have followed 'procedure'?

I really hate this kind of "we need to pin this on someone" and "someone must pay" culture. Yes, Merlin will pay heavily for this event financially, but why is there the suggestion that someone has to be prosecuted criminally? I'm almost certain no ride operator, tech staff or park management meant for that to happen.

they do this to train crew now too.... we had it drummed into us at the last safety brief that since a change in law (typical tories looking after their corporate buddies) if we (guards) injure someone that WE will be the ones to get prosecuted or sued if the injured decides to take it to court.... totally shocking really

[SPAD]

"double block working" is also something that the railway has in times of pour visibilty to decrease the risk of a train running into another one in the block ahead if it SPADs a signal - so it wouldn't surprise me if they included this on multi car rollercoasters since they operate on the same absolute block principle!

[oliverfox]

Even in a complete alternate universe, if the Smiler was to open relatively soon (before the end of the season, suppose in the next few weeks/months), how many carriages are there in total? Surely if they're two carriages down from this incident, it's limited their fleet to a minimum of 3 cars. They're likely to have 'spares', but this is still surely a limiting factor?