Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

[PeteB]

Not as sharp? It's gravity, they can't exactly control that.

They can.  I never crap myself on drop towers but Extremis is unbelievable. The speed at which it drops is faster than a natural drop.

With Th13teen I think the drop is reasonably fast due to the weight of the train, track, and the number of riders, its not forced like the ABC drop towers.

Would someone care to explain a breakdown of where £5 million has been spent?

Two words: Merlin. Studios.

They charge an outrageous amount for their work, with seemingly no discount for it being a Merlin park. Also, that budget should be taken with a pinch of salt. The majority of it will have gone on theming which is covered by Studios...and that's where it gets confusing.

Apparently studios didn't do much on Sub Terra.

They are usually responsible for most of the work in the parks though, but I dont know where you get this "charge an outrageous amount" from.  It's part of the same company, money comes from the same pot, and its their internal design department. It's what gives them leverage over other themeparks because they have all this stuff at their disposal and don't need outside contractors.

[Dormiens-Dave]

The hole is 6m, we know the towers go to the bottom, we know they load at ground level, ergo drop is 6m, we know Th13teens is 5m.

[Dar]

Would someone care to explain a breakdown of where £5 million has been spent?

Two words: Merlin. Studios.

They charge an outrageous amount for their work, with seemingly no discount for it being a Merlin park. Also, that budget should be taken with a pinch of salt. The majority of it will have gone on theming which is covered by Studios...and that's where it gets confusing.

Apparently studios didn't do much on Sub Terra.

They are usually responsible for most of the work in the parks though, but I dont know where you get this "charge an outrageous amount" from.  It's part of the same company, money comes from the same pot, and its their internal design department. It's what gives them leverage over other themeparks because they have all this stuff at their disposal and don't need outside contractors.

I got told otherwise and studios were very involved!  Damn anonymous sources! :P

Merlin treat them as separate businesses, it may come from the same pot but they still charge each other market+ rates for their work. I won't pretend that I understand it, but I trust it is very confusing and convoluted but makes good business sense! If you catch my drift

[Tom G]

The hole is 6m, we know the towers go to the bottom, we know they load at ground level, ergo drop is 6m, we know Th13teens is 5m.

As I said, I know all that. I'm just going off the video and I admit I could be wrong.

I'm no expert of physics but having been on Thirteen and Sub-Terra that day, I know which one gave me the gut feeling of a speedier drop.

I've also been on the Blackpool Extremis and that is only half the weight and only had a quarter of the people on that a full London one does when I rode and it felt very light compared to London's.

We've known about the ride system for months so the main disappointments still come from the poor effects, actors and theming (in that order of crapness).

[haydn!]

They are usually responsible for most of the work in the parks though, but I dont know where you get this "charge an outrageous amount" from.  It's part of the same company, money comes from the same pot, and its their internal design department. It's what gives them leverage over other themeparks because they have all this stuff at their disposal and don't need outside contractors.

Merlin treat them as separate businesses, it may come from the same pot but they still charge each other market+ rates for their work. I won't pretend that I understand it, but I trust it is very confusing and convoluted but makes good business sense! If you catch my drift

That kind of set up works in most large 'Groups'. The company I work has a very similar structure. As well as the different core businesses that make up the group, we have an HR company, an IS company, Business Services etc all of which are contracted by each other. It's confusing but must work out better somehow.

If the men in suits thing is true, I guess its reasonable to expect some improvements. But realistically. What could they do?

[destinyeternity]

Just got back from my visit today. No new effects, and still no leg ticklers. However, there were a group of important looking men in suits around the park today, a group of about 8 of them (worked for Alton as they were wearing lanyards). Sub-Terra opened mid afternoon and they were in 'the core' at the same time as myself. During the final lift everyones reactions were negative and they just shook their heads. Outside the ride they all stood by the baggage area discussing the ride, I overheard one saying that they "need to increase the fear factor", they also made bouncing gestures with their hands to each other then stood and made a few phonecalls. In total they were outside the ride for about half an hour.

Fingers crossed they will up the fear factor, if only the ride was a bit longer for starters.
Before I knew what this ride was going to be I was hoping if was something to do with finding an alien egg and it hatching so I got my wish really.
I just hope there will be more creepy sound effects in the dark and more back jabbers, anything that made me feel like I really was trapped underground by a sinister (and hungry) Nemesis baby is enough to freak me out and what else is there than to up the effects and the time you're in the pit?

[Tom G]

Increasing the ride cycle is not a realistic option and I'm not sure why people are suggesting it? It's only capable of 800 people or so per hour. Granted, its popularity isn't high enough to warrant that capacity in its current state, but during the holidays it will be very popular regardless of its reputation now. They should be concentrating on improving the experience with more effects and a new approach from the actors.

[ChocolateOrange]

Increasing the ride cycle is not a realistic option and I'm not sure why people are suggesting it? It's only capable of 800 people or so per hour. Granted, its popularity isn't high enough to warrant that capacity in its current state, but during the holidays it will be very popular regardless of its reputation now. They should be concentrating on improving the experience with more effects and a new approach from the actors.

Sub-Terra is capable of more than 800PPH, a lot more, depends on how quick batching is, from what I'm aware, and from what I've heard from some people, is that they managed 1000 at peak times on Saturday (Opening)

[thefatone]

No they didn't. They peaked at 800 on saturday. It's exactly what they get everytime. Purely cos everythings automated.. the only difference they get is some hours getting 760 (unless the ride suffers downtime).

[Johno]

The fact men in suits have been spotted show they're concerned!

[Islander]

Not as sharp? It's gravity, they can't exactly control that.

No, but they can slow it down by sticking a great big solid floor to the bottom of their gondolas, kinda like a solid metal parachute

[destinyeternity]

I reckon people will start warming to Sub-Terra in the end. The problem is people were expecting all sorts from it and when it didn't live up to their expectations they slagged it off everywhere. Yes they could up the effects and to be honest, I reckon they will, after all the rides only been open for 4 days. Give it time.

[Tom G]

To hit 1,000 people per hour, the ride would need to be dropping less than every 2.5 minutes. This is just not possible with any form of pre and post drop sounds/effects etc. Even The Dungeons take a few minutes between loading.

[Nightfall]

Increasing the ride cycle is not a realistic option and I'm not sure why people are suggesting it? It's only capable of 800 people or so per hour. Granted, its popularity isn't high enough to warrant that capacity in its current state, but during the holidays it will be very popular regardless of its reputation now. They should be concentrating on improving the experience with more effects and a new approach from the actors.

There's a simple solution, they need 2 ride cycles. On busy days it can run the current cycle albeit with all the changes suggested by members on here which will immensely improve the ride from what it is now. On quieter days they can run a longer mode where every section of the ride is extended to slow down the pace of the experience. Mystery Castle does this. In fact if those men in suits are reading this then get yourself over to Phantasialand now and they'll give you a master class on making the most out of this type of ride.

[ChocolateOrange]

To hit 1,000 people per hour, the ride would need to be dropping less than every 2.5 minutes. This is just not possible with any form of pre and post drop sounds/effects etc. Even The Dungeons take a few minutes between loading.

The ride currently runs the two lifts in sequence, lift 1 takes 15 seconds, lift 2 takes 20 seconds, the chamber lasts no longer than a minute, fitting those together, with about 30 seconds for human error, that's 2 minutes of ride experience, less than 2.5 minutes. Easily achievable.

[Tom G]

Increasing the ride cycle is not a realistic option and I'm not sure why people are suggesting it? It's only capable of 800 people or so per hour. Granted, its popularity isn't high enough to warrant that capacity in its current state, but during the holidays it will be very popular regardless of its reputation now. They should be concentrating on improving the experience with more effects and a new approach from the actors.

There's a simple solution, they need 2 ride cycles. On busy days it can run the current cycle albeit with all the changes suggested by members on here which will immensely improve the ride from what it is now. On quieter days they can run a longer mode where every section of the ride is extended to slow down the pace of the experience. Mystery Castle does this. In fact if those men in suits are reading this then get yourself over to Phantasialand now and they'll give you a master class on making the most out of this type of ride.

I don't like that, I'd feel cheated if I were forced to have the 'crap' version on busy days.

I know flats are run on shorter cycles when it's busier at some places, but I think this is different. They should just make the original ride cycle better with improvement in the effects and actors.

There's just no real theatre or care in this thing. Every time I give it a minute's thought I can come up with plausible ideas for effects or improvements. It's like the people they have now don't give a damn, or are just out of their depth.

[Tom G]

To hit 1,000 people per hour, the ride would need to be dropping less than every 2.5 minutes. This is just not possible with any form of pre and post drop sounds/effects etc. Even The Dungeons take a few minutes between loading.

The ride currently runs the two lifts in sequence, lift 1 takes 15 seconds, lift 2 takes 20 seconds, the chamber lasts no longer than a minute, fitting those together, with about 30 seconds for human error, that's 2 minutes of ride experience, less than 2.5 minutes. Easily achievable.

Your figures are way off I'm afraid. The process of people entering the drop tower chamber, loading, dropping, rising, unloading and departing takes in excess of three minutes by my estimation.

It's the drop towers, their loading, riding and unloading sequence that determine the throughput, not the other aspects of the attraction.

[W@LLI$]

Does anyone know about ABC rides and what they are doing and what they said??

[Johno]

That's my concern. This thing should have been ready at least 2 weeks in advance.

At which point people must have got on, and seen whether it scared them s***less or not. If it didn't, and was as bad as you guy all say it was, then they had 2 weeks to sort it!

[ChocolateOrange]

To hit 1,000 people per hour, the ride would need to be dropping less than every 2.5 minutes. This is just not possible with any form of pre and post drop sounds/effects etc. Even The Dungeons take a few minutes between loading.

The ride currently runs the two lifts in sequence, lift 1 takes 15 seconds, lift 2 takes 20 seconds, the chamber lasts no longer than a minute, fitting those together, with about 30 seconds for human error, that's 2 minutes of ride experience, less than 2.5 minutes. Easily achievable.

Your figures are way off I'm afraid. The process of people entering the drop tower chamber, loading, dropping, rising, unloading and departing takes in excess of three minutes by my estimation.

It's the drop towers, their loading, riding and unloading sequence that determine the throughput, not the other aspects of the attraction.

I'm pretty sure on my timing, Onloading takes 10-15 seconds, should the hosts be working hard which they were on Saturday, Offloading is automatic, should the guests run like they are told to, it would take them barely anytime to reach the lifts, the whole drop sequence is 30 seconds at a max, with a 19 second ascent after the drop, it's really a lot quicker than you think.