Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:40 pm
Nice vid from our good friend Shawn Sanbrooke:
Shows the vertical lift contruction:)
Shows the vertical lift contruction:)
Theme parks and attractions from another point of view!
https://www.attractionsource.com/forum/
https://www.attractionsource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31157
Hello. I'm ( going to be ) a Physicist.Evostance wrote:Electromagnets. I'm not convinced normal magnets will hold a 16 seater rollercoaster train up vertically.Altitude wrote: ^ Magnets don't need power to work. It's physics. You cannot turn them off.
Besides, you would have to electromagnets otherwise thats going to have to be one strong pulled to pull against the weight of the magnets if they're supposed to be stopping them from rolling back.
If they're always on magnets then they're going to have to be very strong, which OK, if they are then fine. But you're going to have to be able to pull a train over them.
You can't have it both ways.
Ok so understanding this is not hard, I understand fully what these fins will do incase of a snapped chain, motor failure etc...the ony thing I don't understand is why now? All the coasters, all the vertical lifts especially from gerst, why now?gouldy wrote: On a usual Eurofighter, there is a simple rack and dog mechanism fitted, like any other lift hill. These are so the train cannot roll backwards down the lift hill under any circumstance. On Eurofighter lifts, this becomes a problem if the ride breaks down to such an extent that the people on the lift hill need to be evacuated from the train, as you can imagine. The evacuation process would be a particularly awkward affair, that could actually be dangerous.
However, with the fins it's possible, without any power whatsoever (in case of a powercut), to allow the train to slowly roll back down the hill into the horizontzal position; allowing the evacuation process to be as simple as stepping out of the train onto a catwalk.
That seems the most reasonable explanation for the fins as I can see.
MatthewR1990 wrote:Ok so understanding this is not hard, I understand fully what these fins will be abs to do incase of a snapped chain etc...the ony thing I don't understand is why now? All the coasters, all the vertical lifts especially from gerst.gouldy wrote: On a usual Eurofighter, there is a simple rack and dog mechanism fitted, like any other lift hill. These are so the train cannot roll backwards down the lift hill under any circumstance. On Eurofighter lifts, this becomes a problem if the ride breaks down to such an extent that the people on the lift hill need to be evacuated from the train, as you can imagine. The evacuation process would be a particularly awkward affair, that could actually be dangerous.
However, with the fins it's possible, without any power whatsoever (in case of a powercut), to allow the train to slowly roll back down the hill into the horizontzal position; allowing the evacuation process to be as simple as stepping out of the train onto a catwalk.
That seems the most reasonable explanation for the fins as I can see.
Okay calm... deep breath haha.andzdrew wrote: I honestly have no idea what it is but I'm certain it's not to stop the train rolling backwards, lift hills have been doing that themselves since they were invented, these are new and they are there for a reason, there are 5 unlockable things in the game and because JW said u have to ride to see doesn't mean we should take those words so damned literally
I would imagine they would add power to retract the fins. That way, if the power failed, the fins would pop back out and slow the train down. Problem solved!aircanman wrote: I'm really surprised people have jumped the gun here at guessing what we are seeing here with the fins, process or elimination should have been applied....
Rule out LIM launch system, this isn't one of those.
I doubt it is for a controlled anti rollback system, the reason for this is that the chain will have to pull the car up that hundreds of times every day, the fins being magnetic breaks will put strain on the motor and cause issues, what's that you say, they are retractable fins?!?! - Thats right, but I am sure you need that element called POWER to retract and apply these fins, so if there were a power cut, the fins would need to be engaged anyway, so you can rule out a safety system.
I am sure earlier on in these threads there was a hydraulic ram at the bottom by the motor, could that have something to do with the chain momentarily disengaging the train as it goes up, for a fall back effect, then the fins will 'catch' the train and then the chain will take over again.
If you have compressed air storage, there is no need for power, until all the compressed air has been used. The fins are pnuematically operated and a physical switch can be turned to operate them. No power required, whatsoever.aircanman wrote: I doubt it is for a controlled anti rollback system, the reason for this is that the chain will have to pull the car up that hundreds of times every day, the fins being magnetic breaks will put strain on the motor and cause issues, what's that you say, they are retractable fins?!?! - Thats right, but I am sure you need that element called POWER to retract and apply these fins, so if there were a power cut, the fins would need to be engaged anyway, so you can rule out a safety system.
It is possible that air could power these, there will still need to be some sort of electronic switch somewhere along the line to engage or disengage them (unless they run high pressure piping from the lift hill to the control booth)gouldy wrote:If you have compressed air storage, there is no need for power, until all the compressed air has been used. The fins are pnuematically operated and a physical switch can be turned to operate them. No power required, whatsoever.aircanman wrote: I doubt it is for a controlled anti rollback system, the reason for this is that the chain will have to pull the car up that hundreds of times every day, the fins being magnetic breaks will put strain on the motor and cause issues, what's that you say, they are retractable fins?!?! - Thats right, but I am sure you need that element called POWER to retract and apply these fins, so if there were a power cut, the fins would need to be engaged anyway, so you can rule out a safety system.
Or as stated above, the fins would be in a normally open position and being powered closed, so if the power cut off, the fins would automatically engage.
aircanman wrote:It is possible that air could power these, there will still need to be some sort of electronic switch somewhere along the line to engage or disengage them (unless they run high pressure piping from the lift hill to the control booth)gouldy wrote:If you have compressed air storage, there is no need for power, until all the compressed air has been used. The fins are pnuematically operated and a physical switch can be turned to operate them. No power required, whatsoever.aircanman wrote: I doubt it is for a controlled anti rollback system, the reason for this is that the chain will have to pull the car up that hundreds of times every day, the fins being magnetic breaks will put strain on the motor and cause issues, what's that you say, they are retractable fins?!?! - Thats right, but I am sure you need that element called POWER to retract and apply these fins, so if there were a power cut, the fins would need to be engaged anyway, so you can rule out a safety system.
Or as stated above, the fins would be in a normally open position and being powered closed, so if the power cut off, the fins would automatically engage.
And for the fins to engage when the power goes off, there would need to be a constant current holding them in, this is not how it's going to be.
since when was there a trick track?tigzie1 wrote: I'm loving the "Trick Track" installed today, the lift hill is going to scare so many people!
Bingo. This guy understands how it will work. Just like mechanical brakes are always closed so if a power cut happens then the train will still get stopped. The same I would imagine will be the same for these that they are powered down but when there is no power they are automatically raised.youarecorrectsir wrote: I would imagine they would add power to retract the fins. That way, if the power failed, the fins would pop back out and slow the train down. Problem solved!
Something seriously wrong if that's the case then lol Vekoma have used a silenced anti rollback system for a number of years now using a fin as seen here:dylan.tempelaars wrote:i have been on millenium at fantasy and experienced going backwards due to malfunction so this is trueLuke_A wrote: There is no way that they can be LIM's or LSM's.
The fins are clearly the metal alloy of copper/steel and sometimes bronze which is always used for the braking fins, these cannot be electrified in order to provide any sort of acceleration.
From the images, this looks like an identical system to that used on Millennium Coaster at Fantasy Island.
On Millennium, in the event of the list chain stopping, the train can be simply rolled back down the lift until it reaches the bottom where a friction system (tyres / pinch brakes) can hold the train in place. The Smiler has a few friction / pinch brakes at the base of it's vertical lift.
If this is what The Smiler is using, then...
a) No need for the cherry picker cage on the side of the lift which is used for evac's on Eurofighters as can be seen in the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JWtbCCSUMM
b) No need for metal teeth on either side of the chain trough because this system is in place, instead; the block section before the lift will simply stay unoccupied by a train until the lift is clear, in the event that a car cannot make it up the full lift. No metal teeth = silent lift.
((The motors used on Gerstlauer coasters are incredibly quiet for their size as it is.))
c) Due to the longer 16-person trains, it may be deemed unsafe or too time-consuming to be able to evacuate the train in the vertical position, meaning Gerstlauer had to come up with this solution instead.
Just a few things i felt needed bringing up.