The Smiler - Construction Discussion

[Andzdrew]

I honestly have no idea what it is but I'm certain it's not to stop the train rolling backwards, lift hills have been doing that themselves since they were invented, these are new and they are there for a reason, there are 5 unlockable things in the game and because JW said u have to ride to see doesn't mean we should take those words so damned literally

[Luke_A]

There is no way that they can be LIM's or LSM's.

The fins are clearly the metal alloy of copper/steel and sometimes bronze which is always used for the braking fins, these cannot be electrified in order to provide any sort of acceleration.

From the images, this looks like an identical system to that used on Millennium Coaster at Fantasy Island.
On Millennium, in the event of the list chain stopping, the train can be simply rolled back down the lift until it reaches the bottom where a friction system (tyres / pinch brakes) can hold the train in place. The Smiler has a few friction / pinch brakes at the base of it's vertical lift.

If this is what The Smiler is using, then...
a) No need for the cherry picker cage on the side of the lift which is used for evac's on Eurofighters as can be seen in the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JWtbCCSUMM

b) No need for metal teeth on either side of the chain trough because this system is in place, instead; the block section before the lift will simply stay unoccupied by a train until the lift is clear, in the event that a car cannot make it up the full lift. No metal teeth = silent lift.
((The motors used on Gerstlauer coasters are incredibly quiet for their size as it is.))

c) Due to the longer 16-person trains, it may be deemed unsafe or too time-consuming to be able to evacuate the train in the vertical position, meaning Gerstlauer had to come up with this solution instead.

Just a few things i felt needed bringing up.

[Evostance]

Guys, think about it..

If there is no ratchet, then we're solely relying on magnetism to hold or lower the trains.

What happens if there is a power cut?  There won't be any magnetism for the fins so you're still stuck on a vertical evacuation, hence the reason for a ratchet.

You can't not have a ratchet for the reasons above.  The only way I can see it being an evacuation is if the trains have a lever which lifts the ratchet up and allows the train to fall back.

Take a look at Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, those trains are far bigger and there are no fins on that lift hill

Also, if it was for roll back then why don't they go over the crest? 

[Altitude]

^ Magnets don't need power to work. It's physics. You cannot turn them off.

[bbooth2]

^ Magnets don't need power to work. It's physics. You cannot turn them off.

dude have you not heard of electro magnets

[WhatARoaster]

What happens if there is a power cut?  There won't be any magnetism for the fins so you're still stuck on a vertical evacuation, hence the reason for a ratchet.

The fins themselves arent "magnitised", the are just sheets of metal. When raised the interfere with large magnets on the bottoms of the trains, thus slowing the train down.

[Altitude]

^ Magnets don't need power to work. It's physics. You cannot turn them off.

dude have you not heard of electro magnets

Yes. But these aren't electro magnets 

[Evostance]

^ Magnets don't need power to work. It's physics. You cannot turn them off.

Electromagnets.  I'm not convinced normal magnets will hold a 16 seater rollercoaster train up vertically.

Besides, you would have to electromagnets otherwise thats going to have to be one strong pulled to pull against the weight of the magnets if they're supposed to be stopping them from rolling back.

If they're always on magnets then they're going to have to be very strong, which OK, if they are then fine.  But you're going to have to be able to pull a train over them.
You can't have it both ways.

[Luke_A]

Guys, think about it..

If there is no ratchet, then we're solely relying on magnetism to hold or lower the trains.

What happens if there is a power cut?  There won't be any magnetism for the fins so you're still stuck on a vertical evacuation, hence the reason for a ratchet.

LIM's & LSM's require power, metal braking fins do not.

A magnetic current is induced by a magnet on the bottom of the train passing over the metal fins on the track, no power necessary. It's a failsafe system as magnets cannot be turned off.

In this instance, the train will be slowed to a crawl by the fins, once it passes all these fins it will be stopped fully by the friction brakes at the lift base.

[Altitude]

^ Magnets don't need power to work. It's physics. You cannot turn them off.

Electromagnets.  I'm not convinced normal magnets will hold a 16 seater rollercoaster train up vertically.

Besides, you would have to electromagnets otherwise thats going to have to be one strong pulled to pull against the weight of the magnets if they're supposed to be stopping them from rolling back.

If they're always on magnets then they're going to have to be very strong, which OK, if they are then fine.  But you're going to have to be able to pull a train over them.
You can't have it both ways.

Until I see a power supply, they're not electro magnets. Stealth's brakes aren't, and neither are Detonators (Which is the same as this coaster).

And your point about the fins not being on the crest, why would they need to be? It doesn't matter if the train rolls back quickly for a couple of meters. The magnets will stop it.

[PhNx Survivor]

Well... I'm glad to see my idea when the lift hill track was first released that we'd possibly see a vertical backwards free-fall, might come possible

Over on towersstreet, you can see one of the pieces for the lift... It appears to have a chain, of course, but then a magnetic brake of some sort AND friction brakes... Could it be the vertical lift might drop you backwards when you almost reach the top, then you make your way back up??

EDIT: would also explain the long brake run before the lift with magnetic brakes... Just in case... Could this be our world's first??

Here's the post.

[lewis97]

What we have is neither an LSM or LIM system, they are Eddy Current Brakes, and here's an explanation from wikipedia;

The linear eddy current brake consists of a magnetic yoke with electrical coils positioned along the rail, which are being magnetized alternating as south and north magnetic poles. This magnet does not touch the rail, as with the magnetic brake, but is held at a constant small distance from the rail (approximately 7 mm).

When the magnet is moved along the rail, it generates a non-stationary magnetic field in the head of the rail, which then generates electrical tension (Faraday's induction law), and causes eddy currents. These disturb the magnetic field in such a way that the magnetic force is diverted to the opposite of the direction of the movement, thus creating a horizontal force component, which works against the movement of the magnet.

...

Modern roller coasters also use this type of braking, but in order to avoid the risk of potential power outages, they utilize permanent magnets instead of electromagnets, thus not requiring any power supply, however, without the possibility to adjust the braking strength as easily as with electromagnets.

[Osaka12]

Couldn't these fins simply be an attempt to quieten the ride?
I mean this is just a hunch I'm throwing out there, but with 2 chain lifts and as Spindoctor said the "click click" noise of a standard anti-rollback chain system, the ride will be pretty noisy.
Maybe they have developed an anti roll that eliminates the need for a the traditional clicking system.

[Altitude]

It's not some fancy secret element. It's an anti-rollback system. Save the dreams of backwards free-falls for the speculation topic!

Go ahead and quote this post. I'm confident. Case closed

[Katherine]

I probably sound kinda stupid asking this, but could someone please tell me what Lims and Fins are? I'm confused.

LIM is a type of launch, it stands for Linear Induction Motors, Fins are what the magnetic brakes are called, probably because they look like fins. They are on the track of the V lift.

Hope this helped

Yeah it helped, thankyou.

[dylan.tempelaars]

There is no way that they can be LIM's or LSM's.

The fins are clearly the metal alloy of copper/steel and sometimes bronze which is always used for the braking fins, these cannot be electrified in order to provide any sort of acceleration.

From the images, this looks like an identical system to that used on Millennium Coaster at Fantasy Island.
On Millennium, in the event of the list chain stopping, the train can be simply rolled back down the lift until it reaches the bottom where a friction system (tyres / pinch brakes) can hold the train in place. The Smiler has a few friction / pinch brakes at the base of it's vertical lift.

If this is what The Smiler is using, then...
a) No need for the cherry picker cage on the side of the lift which is used for evac's on Eurofighters as can be seen in the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JWtbCCSUMM

b) No need for metal teeth on either side of the chain trough because this system is in place, instead; the block section before the lift will simply stay unoccupied by a train until the lift is clear, in the event that a car cannot make it up the full lift. No metal teeth = silent lift.
((The motors used on Gerstlauer coasters are incredibly quiet for their size as it is.))

c) Due to the longer 16-person trains, it may be deemed unsafe or too time-consuming to be able to evacuate the train in the vertical position, meaning Gerstlauer had to come up with this solution instead.

Just a few things i felt needed bringing up.

i have been on millenium at fantasy and experienced going backwards due to malfunction so this is true

[Epsilon]

Slightly off topic here, and I know I'm gonna be shot down for this, but what if the secret element is the interlocking Cobra Roll & Batwing?

It's just that I was reading up on some roller coaster elements, and there was a section on interlocking cobra rolls and batwings, and it said that it had never been done before, and that the first one to try it was The Smiler.

Don't believe me? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_coa ... Cobra_Roll

[Morgano]

Slightly off topic here, and I know I'm gonna be shot down for this, but what if the secret element is the interlocking Cobra Roll & Batwing?

It's just that I was reading up on some roller coaster elements, and there was a section on interlocking cobra rolls and batwings, and it said that it had never been done before, and that the first one to try it was The Smiler.

Don't believe me? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_coa ... Cobra_Roll

Hint "secret". World first, yes. Among many things on this coaster.

[Danny]

Couple of photos of the lift being completed:











Credit to TPMC Facebook page.

[chrisgeorgiou46]

Yeah but the public don't care about that! They want something obvious and in your face!