The Smiler - Construction Discussion

[MatthewR1990]

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Is that track going in on the final turn into the brake run?

[aldredd]

all very curious.

Seems overkill for anti-rollback - other than the fact the trains are bigger. Perhaps there really is a vertical drop - and these stem the speed (it could be pretty uncomfortable otherwise)

Also, in that shot by MrMrMr - you can't see the bottom of the lift - is that true from most view-points? May be nothing, but perhaps there's a reason they dug it into a trench like that.... (though not sure if the trench is deep enough to obscure the car)

[WhatARoaster]

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The reason its not as sharp a curve as we are used to seeing may be because normal eurofighter trains are a lot shorter (4x2) and the trains were getting are longer (4x4). just a thought.

[Evostance]

I dont think these fins are for a rollback, I'm going to take a guess and say that the chain is some sort of fail safe.

Are we looking at a vertical launch, with the chain there just in case the fins fail for whatever reason so they can either:
a) Continue to run the ride with a chain lift
b) Just incase the trains are to heavy to make the crest.

It can't launch too fast due to the G's it would pull at the top, so maybe the chain is there to help it over the crest of the hill.  Saying that though, Stealth doesn't have a chain at the top just in case, however I guess if that rolls back it just goes into the station again.  These would get stuck

[Rollercoasters4Life]

I'm still a bit behind and might need refreshed as I havent seen it in quite a while, does anyone have semi complete/complete layout yet?

Correct as of 3:00PM on 15th April 2013:

(Click for larger image - Stuff in orange is unknown as to whether it is happening as of yet)

Left still to do from top down is the first lift hill, final turn into the brakes, second inverted drop then first inverted drop.

[Danny]

Sorry first day back at school today so haven't managed to keep updated as well, has the vertical track all finished being constructed?

[dylan.tempelaars]

Sorry first day back at school today so haven't managed to keep updated as well, has the vertical track all finished being constructed?

hi also came back from sk but yeh the lift hill track is up not sure about the actuall chains though :/

[lewis97]

I'm not taken by this vertical launch idea.

Firstly, the fins are exactly the same as the fins which can be seen on the brake runs, suggesting to me that that they are just magnetic brakes.

Furthermore, the whole lift has a chain, be realistic please, as that wouldn't be there as a fail safe, or just so they could run the ride without it. The vertical launch would be a key element to the ride if it existed, so they'd make the effort to keep it running.

Also, the fins are retractable. Why on earth would fins for a launch be retractable? I cannot find any reason!

Another point is that JW said that there would be two chain lift hills, with one being vertical. Him lying, would not be part of AT's marketing strategy as we as enthusiasts trust him to bring us reliable information

Finally, they look nothing like the LSMs Gerstlauer use on their other launches, here are the ones from Lynet:



Compared to:



I see them as being a new method of anti-rollback, that can be used to lower the train back down off the lift hill. The fins can be withdrawn as the train is going up the lift hill, and in the event of the failure, activated, so that the lift motor could perhaps be switched into reverse, and they would act as an extra safety precaution.

[Andzdrew]

Once the train engages on the lift chain and goes clickty click, it is never going to come back down, the ratchet is the failsafe, on every chain driven lift in the world... Why would this need magnetic breaks? No other chain lift in the world has magnetic breaks like this, it simply is not needed, for the people who are saying it's to get the train to slowly come down... Magnetic breaks are not variable, they are on, or they are off! The train either stops dead, or it doesn't. To me it's blindingly obvious that this is a world's first, it's nothing to do with safety at all, electronic magnetic breaks as a failsafe to a chain and ratchet?

[Liam B]

Would just like to say to a post I saw that it is unlikely to be there for a replacement to the regular anti-rollbacks because of noise as I would say SAW's lift is one the quietest I have been on.

[Altitude]

Would just like to say to a post I saw that it is unlikely to be there for a replacement to the regular anti-rollbacks because of noise as I would say SAW's lift is one the quietest I have been on.

Saw's lift is loud at the base where the cars latch on to the chain.

[lewis97]

I think the strain on a ratchet would be too much to be safe, as these are pretty big trains being pulled vertically upwards. The whole of the trains weight would be resting on this ratchet, and if that happens too often, it could be at risk of breaking. Therefore, I think Gerstlauer have had to design a completely new safety system.

[M3tabolic]

Magnetic breaks are not variable, they are on, or they are off! The train either stops dead, or it doesn't.

I don't think that's strictly true. Magnetic brakes require the train to be moving in order to generate the eddy currents which slow it down. As far as I know magnetic brakes aren't able to stop a train dead.

[youarecorrectsir]

Once the train engages on the lift chain and goes clickty click, it is never going to come back down, the ratchet is the failsafe, on every chain driven lift in the world... Why would this need magnetic breaks? No other chain lift in the world has magnetic breaks like this, it simply is not needed, for the people who are saying it's to get the train to slowly come down... Magnetic breaks are not variable, they are on, or they are off! The train either stops dead, or it doesn't. To me it's blindingly obvious that this is a world's first, it's nothing to do with safety at all, electronic magnetic breaks as a failsafe to a chain and ratchet?

I think what most people are saying is that the 'clickety click' method wont be used for this ride. The ropers live very close and its a noisy failsafe method. This might perhaps be replaced by a magnetised failsafe system which hardly makes and noise. Part of the agreement for rides in X-Sector is that the noise level is maintained to be low.

Your point about the magnets being on or off isnt strictly true. Magnetising power is proportional to the current passed through the system. Simply raising or lowering the current through the magnets would alter the strength. Plus, there is more than one magnet. Even if they were 'on/off' magnets you could bring it down crudely by switching one off at a time.

For me, I can't see this being a worlds first... I could be wrong! But for me its just a quiet chain snap failsafe mechanism.

[lewis97]

Magnetic breaks are not variable, they are on, or they are off! The train either stops dead, or it doesn't.

I don't think that's strictly true. Magnetic brakes require the train to be moving in order to generate the eddy currents which slow it down. As far as I know magnetic brakes aren't able to stop a train dead.

Which would explain the friction brakes also being on the brake runs, and at the base of the lift - so that the train will go back to the horizontal track very slowly.

[Instant Mix]

Once the train engages on the lift chain and goes clickty click, it is never going to come back down, the ratchet is the failsafe, on every chain driven lift in the world... Why would this need magnetic breaks? No other chain lift in the world has magnetic breaks like this, it simply is not needed, for the people who are saying it's to get the train to slowly come down... Magnetic breaks are not variable, they are on, or they are off! The train either stops dead, or it doesn't. To me it's blindingly obvious that this is a world's first, it's nothing to do with safety at all, electronic magnetic breaks as a failsafe to a chain and ratchet?

Calm down - It's actually a very sound idea. Anti-rollbacks can be a pain as, especially on a vertical lift hill, it can make evacuation a pain. Standard ratchets are a great idea on general lift hills, but how the hell are you going to "slide" people out of a car that's on it's side? A method of slowly moving the car down is a great idea. Magnetic brakes are also passive , they aren't on or off. Their stopping power is caused by the movement of the train itself, not by electricity or friction. The movement of a conductor between a magnet induces a magnetic field, which will then act upon the train , slowing it down. It's actually therefore impossible to make a train stop dead , as if it stopped, no braking force would be created, and the brakes would essentially not work. So actually, this makes total sense, and could actually be a really smart breakthrough.

[Andzdrew]

It has to have a clicky ratchet, it's the only way of ensuring the train can never come down the lift hill, it's the oldest failsafe in the world. Oblivion, nemesis, air... Much heavier trains, chain lift, clicky click and... No magnetic breaks! They are there for a very good reason and it's not safety or because the poor little chain can't cope with the trains they've designed, I think it's obvious, the magnetic breaks simply have no reason at all to be there other than some sort of special element

[Boz]

I think the strain on a ratchet would be too much to be safe, as these are pretty big trains being pulled vertically upwards. The whole of the trains weight would be resting on this ratchet, and if that happens too often, it could be at risk of breaking. Therefore, I think Gerstlauer have had to design a completely new safety system.

Contrary to that opinion, they wouldn't be holding any more or less weight. If a eurofighter for example has two anti-roll back ratchets, then you dived the total mass of the trains by two, as the load is being split. Likewise, with a four car train, using four ratchets (again just as an example), the trains load is divisible by four, meaning that so long as the individual row weight is the same for both models of train, then the load applied to each ratchet is actually the same.

[Danny]

The size of the lift chains look much bigger than other eurofighters so I'm guessing the weight of the trains aren't an issue. They aren't to launch the train so can only be brakes, if this was to be the worlds first where it rolls back I could understand as they would slow the train down on the way down and then enter the brake run again
However I still believe the worlds first won't be visible to the public as John wardley said you'd have to ride it, so I think it's just a safety feature

[Rollercoasters4Life]

For the people who are saying it's to get the train to slowly come down... Magnetic breaks are not variable, they are on, or they are off!

Hence why they can raise or be lowered.

The train either stops dead, or it doesn't.

Incorrect again. Magnetic fins are unable to hold a train to a dead stop. They use a magnetic field, not physical contact.

To me it's blindingly obvious that this is a world's first, it's nothing to do with safety at all, electronic magnetic breaks as a failsafe to a chain and ratchet?

Once again, have you seen an evacuation on a vertical lift hill? It is a really pain in the neck as you are vertical not horizontal. They may of added the fins so the train can be lowered and evacuated on a horizontal plane which is much easier. New trains, new vertical lift hill in terms of supports and sloping angles so why not a new evacuation procedure?