The Smiler - Speculation

[Blaze]

The straight before it is the block system. The lift is vertical because there is no space for a normal lift. It needs to get to the same height as the other lift as it passes along side, so a vertical lift is needed.

The layout does have to be shown exactly so they show the ride will not infringe on any restrictions.

[Dylan]

I would imagine both lifts will run at the same sort of speed. If one is a lunch, the other will be a launch. I'm not really sure either way.

[Matthew144]

The straight before it is the block system. The lift is vertical because there is no space for a normal lift. It needs to get to the same height as the other lift as it passes along side, so a vertical lift is needed.

The layout does have to be shown exactly so they show the ride will not infringe on any restrictions.

In the covering letter it states that the final plans are still been worked upon and will be submitted prior to it going to committee, so from that statement these are proberbly not the final plans. What is shown is not much better than the back of a fag packet. Proper plans will need to be drawn for manufacturing and im guessing these will be the ones submitted for final appoval.

[smudge.]

I would imagine both lifts will run at the same sort of speed. If one is a lunch, the other will be a launch. I'm not really sure either way.

Two launches running at exactly the same time & same speed would be a nightmare to get right in the first place, let alone keep timed right.

I originally thought that a vertical launch could be on the cards, (and I guess still is a possibility) , but after reading more comments & reasoning thus will more than likely be just a chain..
I don't actually think having launches would add too much to the ride anyway. I mean they can't be forceful; a) your head would explode at the top of the vertical one b) it would make the rest of the ride too quick c) they wouldn't want (I imagine) to put the emphasis on the launch (like Rita) and take it away that we could have a world class, no frills, White knuckle coaster.


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[Ripsaw Raver]

is there any possibilty the forces would not be too strong if the cars were backwards, lets face it a Backwards Dueling Steel Coaster would be a world first would it not? and the Vertical lift will play on intimidation just as Oblivion does.

[Stelios7]

we are basically still in the dark for the manufacturer arent we so why are people argueing over it

It's TTF, what'd you expect. It's all about speculation, that's basically what SW7 Part 1 was.

[Blaze]

The straight before it is the block system. The lift is vertical because there is no space for a normal lift. It needs to get to the same height as the other lift as it passes along side, so a vertical lift is needed.

The layout does have to be shown exactly so they show the ride will not infringe on any restrictions.

In the covering letter it states that the final plans are still been worked upon and will be submitted prior to it going to committee, so from that statement these are proberbly not the final plans. What is shown is not much better than the back of a fag packet. Proper plans will need to be drawn for manufacturing and im guessing these will be the ones submitted for final appoval.

The layout is final. It's simple. They have to show where the ride goes to show it doesn't infringe the restrictions, and for 'completeness'. If that wasn't the layout exactly, the amont of detail would not be needed. The only parts of the plan missing are the building plans. The plans involving the layout and location are exactly right, as that's the first thing to be done in the designing.

Why anyone would boubt that's the exact layout because of the doubt over the shape of the track (which we have proven to be an exported version of tri-rail)?

we are basically still in the dark for the manufacturer arent we so why are people argueing over it

It's TTF, what'd you expect. It's all about speculation, that's basically what SW7 Part 1 was.

No we're not in the dark. The plans state Gerstlauer and the track looks set to be tri-rail, which is used by Gerstlauer. There's maybe a tiny bit of doubt because of the wording, but at 95% certainty, we can say it will be a Gerstlauer.

[Crumpet Muncher]

is there any possibilty the forces would not be too strong if the cars were backwards, lets face it a Backwards Dueling Steel Coaster would be a world first would it not? and the Vertical lift will play on intimidation just as Oblivion does.

I can't think of anything worse!

[Blaze]

is there any possibilty the forces would not be too strong if the cars were backwards, lets face it a Backwards Dueling Steel Coaster would be a world first would it not? and the Vertical lift will play on intimidation just as Oblivion does.

I can't think of anything worse!

I can...backwards standup floorless! :P

Seriously, why have a backwards coaster that duels? You wouldn't be able to see the duelling.

[Dormiens-Dave]

Yeah i have been using NL since its early days too.... I'm saying IF they used NL then its still an accurate depiction because manipulating the track would be pointless otherwise, as the plans depicted do not corrispond with any NL track style.

Ah, they may not, but to export the track, you need to export it as a .3ds file, and then use that to create the necessary images you need. The profile views, etc. There is only one way to logically convert a .nltrack to a .3ds file and that's using the NoLimits construction kit. The NoLimits construction kit does not contain the Gerstlauer track type, as it was added to the game after the CK stopped being developed. Therefore, it's one of those things that cannot be converted into a .3ds without being transformed into another track style. The CK does this automatically and makes it into the standard Schwartzkopf track. Below is evidence that proves this.

Track one is the standard 3 tube Gerstlauer Track. Track two is the same in the construction kit software, and the bottom images is number 2 in wireframe. I think it's safe to say that theory is blown out of the water. I can also go through and do the support styles if you'd like... But they are as they show up in the plans. The plans were drawn up in NL and the track style won't be an accurate representation of what we'll see built. I can guarantee that.



This also begs the question of whether or not the track is quite accurate. Seeing as the plans for the track are not up for planning permission, they don't realistically have to be totally accurate, so the track layout may be different. It's probably just a representation of what they have planned.

Your images are not working, as my argument isn;t about whether the damn thing can or cant be done in NL i would quite like to see the images before i decide whether you have "busted" anything out of the water.

Ta

[Blaze]

Images work for me. First picture is tri-railin NL. Second is what it looks like in the NL Construction Kit, last picture is that track in wireframe. It's exactly the same as the track on the plans. Pretty much putting to bed that it's going to be tri-rail.

[Matthew144]

The straight before it is the block system. The lift is vertical because there is no space for a normal lift. It needs to get to the same height as the other lift as it passes along side, so a vertical lift is needed.

The layout does have to be shown exactly so they show the ride will not infringe on any restrictions.

In the covering letter it states that the final plans are still been worked upon and will be submitted prior to it going to committee, so from that statement these are proberbly not the final plans. What is shown is not much better than the back of a fag packet. Proper plans will need to be drawn for manufacturing and im guessing these will be the ones submitted for final appoval.

The layout is final. It's simple. They have to show where the ride goes to show it doesn't infringe the restrictions, and for 'completeness'. If that wasn't the layout exactly, the amont of detail would not be needed. The only parts of the plan missing are the building plans. The plans involving the layout and location are exactly right, as that's the first thing to be done in the designing.

Why anyone would boubt that's the exact layout because of the doubt over the shape of the track (which we have proven to be an exported version of tri-rail)?

we are basically still in the dark for the manufacturer arent we so why are people argueing over it

It's TTF, what'd you expect. It's all about speculation, that's basically what SW7 Part 1 was.

No we're not in the dark. The plans state Gerstlauer and the track looks set to be tri-rail, which is used by Gerstlauer. There's maybe a tiny bit of doubt because of the wording, but at 95% certainty, we can say it will be a Gerstlauer.

I don't dought the layout because of the shape or type of track and I'm sure that the layout is mainly correct but the only part that requires PP is the buildings and if the drawings for that are not complete why would the rest be!
There are errors all over the drawings in terms of supports and on the building plans it shows a track return to maintenance building and a big hole but no track goes to it on the track drawings so these plans are NOT final unless the worlds first is invisible track!
I think AT have kept something up there sleeve that they don't have to/ want to share just yet.

[Blaze]

It's a transfer track.

The only thing not on the documents so far is the layout of the building interior and the exterior decor of the building. Everything else is as it will be.

[Dormiens-Dave]

Images work for me. First picture is tri-railin NL. Second is what it looks like in the NL Construction Kit, last picture is that track in wireframe. It's exactly the same as the track on the plans. Pretty much putting to bed that it's going to be tri-rail.

Yeah just moved to a different computer and the images work, was odd because every other picture on the forums worked but ohh well.

As for the images, they look very similar so it might be possible that this is exactly how the plans where generated (unlike some i can admit if im wrong ). However is it possible to have that image from the side please Jarad as at the moment that 3DS doesn't show where the ties attach to the spine which was the crux of my argument so just to prove me wrong we would need an image side on.

It would certainly explain how all sources point to Gerst (hence why TTF where happy to confirm that) but the track looks very different, they should submit updated plans (not just of the theming) though because they need to be accurate before they go to the commitee as they have submitted this as a complete application, they can't pick and choose what they submit.

[Matthew144]

It's a transfer track.

The only thing not on the documents so far is the layout of the building interior and the exterior decor of the building. Everything else is as it will be.

And where does it show this transfer track on the plans. It doesn't my point exactly.
I suspect it will be a transfer track though as this building is going to be where they store the spare euro fighter cars when not needed at full capacity the same as space mountain etc.
The full plans will be being drawn up by the manufacturor at the moment as these will be proper engineering drawings for manufacture/installation, trust me this takes a long time i know as its what I do for a living!
They may not change much, but they will change guaranteed.

[Blaze]

False. The plans are exactly the same as the plans for Thirteen. The only thing missing in the interior plan and exterior decor. The engineering drawings for manufacture are just that. They don't need to go in with the rest of the plan. They certainly got away without needing them for Thirteen, and that was in a very sensitive location. And the tranfer track is still part of the main track, and drawing it in two places suggests there would somehow be two pieces of track. They oly need to draw it as part of the main track like Thirteen's plan. They don't even need to show interior track.

[Dormiens-Dave]

Guys seriously can we be a little bit more friendly on here, people have posted on here with questions or suggestions and its met with quite frankly a superior, arrogant tone. Please remember that you have all been wrong at times and that these people asking the questions might be new to internet enthusiast forums and may not have noted point 4.2 of the plans for SW6 in 2009!!!

I have had the humility to admit that i could be very wrong with an opinion i held in this topic, people have shown me evidence that contradicted my view of something and i have moved with the times, yet those doing the contradicting instead of being helpful and clear in their argument have been often been rude and condescending. I dont really care too much as i have been on these forums long enough to know that i'm confident in my knowledge but please remember not everyone has studied the history of Alton Towers since 1901! The irony is the most condescending of members are often those who are most often wrong.
So please keep a civil tone and debate the facts... yes say when someone is wrong but be polite, it’s not hard.

[mrbrightside]

There are Ways Around posting like Tools - good to see this thread might get back to common sense posting now...

[Dormiens-Dave]

And where does it show this transfer track on the plans. It doesn't my point exactly.
I suspect it will be a transfer track though as this building is going to be where they store the spare euro fighter cars when not needed at full capacity the same as space mountain etc.
The full plans will be being drawn up by the manufacturor at the moment as these will be proper engineering drawings for manufacture/installation, trust me this takes a long time i know as its what I do for a living!
They may not change much, but they will change guaranteed.

And matthew welcome to TTF i note you are relatively new and its great to have you here, as others have said Transfer tracks are often ommitted from plans submitted to the council i think they show the track in its position during operation. Though these plans are currently very limited as it seems to be a bit of a last minute change of plans. Interesting what you say about planning permission and the buildings, i just hope the final plans get submitted online not just to the commitee.

[The Psychoaster]

Ah well, it's only another 9 days until the target determination date; by which time surely the plans for theming should have been submitted and things will become clearer.