Dormiens-Dave wrote:
What about the confusion when your trying to link in discussion that does relate to another topic, we will end up with repeats of discussion on multiple topics.
Due to the nature of how forums are technically constructed, that is bound to happen. There is no way around that. However, a much bigger problem is the complete mesh and cross-over of discussion in a single, monolithic topic. These are both problems and neither can be beaten entirely, but I think the latter is worse than the former.
Just please, try it for a week, put it to a vote and if people still don't like the idea, it'll never mention it again.
I think I've got to agree with Sam here, not particularly because I agree that topics about every last detail are necessary, but because confining the majority of discussion to one topic seems ludicrous.
It's not like there will be topics made for things like the the manufacturer of the fencing, but how about new topic creation has to be approved by mods first, like in Traffic Boost?
It's just that having the topic "Ride speculation and discussion: Discussing the specifics of the ride itself such as ride elements/themes etc" for 2 years is mad - there will be so many repeats of the same conversation, because nobody will want to read 100 pages to find something and because as Sam says - anything not in the mainstream of discussion will just get left by the wayside, regardless of the post quality. Look at the current discussion - 26 pages, and the same discussions have been had about 4 times. Obviously that's inevitable in some cases, but having smaller topics for specific areas of discussion will limit the amount of reading people have to do to catch up on a topic, hopefully avoiding repetition and the loss of good but not mainstream posts.
As for discussion overlapping with others topics - Sam has covered this too - this isn't really a bad thing if it comes as a result of more discussion, more interest and the input of other ideas into discussion that wouldn't have otherwise flourished. Plus, no doubt any overlap will revolve dominantly around the subject of the topic that is within.
With a limit on topics, by mod approval (which wouldn't take too much work I think, Traffic Boost posts seem to be approved fairly quickly, and once the initial few topics were set up there wouldn't be many created anyway), there wouldn't be too many overlapping discussions anyway. Also, if things were veering off topic too much, hopefully members would report posts, so that they could be moved into other discussion.
James wrote:
I'm sorry Sam but why the hell would we want a whole topic discussing a shop? :P
One thing you should know about this forum James is that their is a huge range in the level of enthusiasm. Some will just want to talk about a rollercoaster that goes upside down really fast. Some find it really enjoyable to talk in detail about support structures, or queue topography. The forum should (and does) cater to both these groups. The hardcore nerds have just as much right to be here as you do.
True. Although my question still remains, why would people want to talk about a shop? The theme of it, the structure, the size, the range of merchandise it will sell, whether it will be a shipping container or not... I fail to see how you could have a whole topic discussing a shop. Sorry to be so pedantic.
I'm happy with things the way they are, I think the team have organised a varied amount of topics for discussion and that will keep things spread out nicely.
James wrote:Although my question still remains, why would people want to talk about a shop? The theme of it, the structure, the size, the range of merchandise it will sell, whether it will be a shipping container or not... I fail to see how you could have a whole topic discussing a shop. Sorry to be so pedantic.
You've completely missed the point. The idea is not to have a discussion about a shop, or subjects so small only 2 people will care, but to have a place to discuss things that would otherwise get lost in the behemoth that will be a 2 year topic discussing everything about a ride. If somebody suggests something about a smaller aspect of the ride, which is followed by somebody posting about a major aspect, chances are high that the smaller discussion will be completely lost and ignored. It seems a shame to lose a myriad of interesting discussions that could have a place in a calmer, more focussed environment.
On the flipside of the coin people don't want to end up in 8 different topics to see everything there is to see about the ride and its design. Will we put people off by having to link to other topics when their idea crosses two different smaller topic or post the same thing in both?
I personally think the better plan is to keep the fixed topics and if anything appears to becoming a bigger discussion point (say theming for instance) then potentially launching extra fixed topics.
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
captain wrote:It's not like there will be topics made for things like the the manufacturer of the fencing, but how about new topic creation has to be approved by mods first, like in Traffic Boost?
This could be another way to go.
Dave, me and captain have laid out some really good, solid reasons about why we think doing it like this will improve the quality of the sub-forum immeasurably. Big monolithic topics will mean more thoughtful and detailed discussion gets left at the wayside.
I really don't see why this can't be tried, if just for a week! One week, if it doesn't work then it can instantly be changed back.
We've discussed things at length as a team and decided to stick with the current method. There may be an opportunity to split things further down or even perhaps go down the route of your suggestion in future Sam, but at present we really don't feel it's necessary.
Just to chuck in my two cents about the subforum...
I think the topics chosen do provide a good variety of discussion, but maybe Sam does have a point. If the forum was opened up for maybe a week or two and topics were forcibly controlled by that point we would probably have all the possible topics needed.
'pointless' topics like 'how good is this ride going to be?' or 'when does it open?' could be quashed by the mods but topics worth small discussion such as the queue, the shop, the ORP, the style of the theme, the toilets and so on could be discussed away from the main ride topic.
After a week or two the forum could be locked again as 90% of all possible threads would probably have been made. As mentioned above another option would be mod approval - or even a notice saying other topics are encouraged, but you must PM a mod first in order to test the feasibility of the topic.
Finally, I wonder about opening up the FAQ topic in a similar way to the QQ2011/2 topics in AT General. That way people can read the FAQ but also just ask a quick question for someone to answer (if it isn't already in the FAQ) to save it getting missed in the bigger topic?
I know it's difficult to make decisions that please everyone when we have such a big community but I thought I would share my thoughts.
I agree with Sam although I would also opt for a system more like traffic boosting. As someone who tried to read all the SW6 ride discussion I know that there's nothing more frustrating then seeing a good discussion only to realise there's been 5 pages of something else posted in the hour you've been away. As a slow writer the subject has often changed between me writing a post and actual posting it. I’d prefer a few more in detailed topics even if it meant having to post information in multiple topics (which if it’s major news should be posted in the SW7 mini-site and FAQ anyway).
Currently I'm already seeing overlaps in discussion because unlike SW6 the area S&D and ride S&D topics aren’t clearly different. With SW6 it was very easy to say "This post is about the Dark Forest" or "This post is about Th13teen" because Th13teen is separated from the rest of the area by Rita’s queue. SW7 is right in the middle of X-Sector so it's not as clear cut.
If the answers still no could we use this topic to suggest when we feel a new section of the sub-forum is needed? I understand that you don't want just anyone posting anything but there will eventually be more in-depth topics needed (although the shop is an extreme example). Already I can see there's a fair bit of discussion on what the World's First element will be. Is it worth having a separate topic for that? I can’t see it being resolved any time soon and it is likely to go around in circles if left in the main thread.
Islander wrote:
Prseumably because as discussion continues, more threads will in time be created?
Yup for precisely that reason. With a year to go there's a lot of opportunity for further discussion. Considering we've only had plans so far and there's that much discussion already shows there's a fair few more topics to come yet before March 2013!
To further add to the above. A sub forum also is a useful place for old discussion topics to be archived in one space so current members and any new members can browse at their own interest. It's easily accessible to members and visitors. We also have a FAQ (which is updated as often as possible) for anyone who has 'quick questions' regarding SW7 or just wants a quick roundup of what SW7 is all about.
If we left all the topics in the Alton Towers Future forum then if a member wants to find one of the old locked topics to make a reference in a post or just wants a read they might not be able to find these specific topics. Other topics in Alton Towers Future would be moved down the forum, being over shadowed by the SW7 topics (leading to very little discussion on other aspects of AT's future). Having everything related to SW7 in one area makes it all easy to find, read and discuss.
I have found myself, since the creation of the sub forum, not actually paying much attention to the topics in there, as frankly it's all a bit OTT and confusing having those 3 topics without room for further discussion. I would understand if those 3 topics were stickied within the forum while normal discussion was allowed. But this at the moment makes no sense to me.
Not being rude but it just seems to me this decision is purely based on the fact it gives the team less work to do, rather that taking into account the actual users. Like I said not trying to be rude and I know my opinion means zilch on here but I just wanted to add my say.
"It would be spiteful to put Jellyfish in a trifle..."
The whole idea of a forum is that it can have Categories, Topics and Sub-topics. They are used to make the forum easier to navigate and helps to keep things separate. Doing a separate sub-topic for each new major attraction is a good thing as people can get straight to what they want to see quickly. I fully understand the teams decision to do this, plus creating loads of stickies just makes it harder to get to the other topics under the stickies
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