SW7 Subforum

[Sam]

Can we have the ability to make new topics in the SW7 subforum please?

Surely the point of having it is that you can discuss different aspects of the ride in detail? If it's just half a dozen topics and locked at that, they might as well be pinned to the top of AT Future.

[Craig]

There won't be the ability to create new topics in the forum, however we'll be splitting off discussion as time goes on in the much the same way as SW6 discussion was (ride discussion, theme discussion etc etc).  The topics should be on there in the next few hours .

[Sam]

I mean, I dunno, it just seems to negate the entire point of a sub-forum if there are only a few topics anyway? Isn't the point that it allows people who are interested in SW7 to talk about it as much as they like, and in as much detail as they like?

Sorry Craig, as much as I respect your judgement on this, I'm in complete disagreement. As the person who originally came up with the idea of the SW6 subforum, I'd rather see the team-mandated topics pinned to AT Future than a pointless subforum cluttering up the forum. This wasn't really what I had in mind. I was going to make an interesting topic later discussing the similarities between SW7 and a past Alton ride but I can't now really, it doesn't have anywhere to go. 

Please reconsider, this renders the subforum useless.

[Craig]

The problem is, as much as you may like to have a separate discussion about similarities, this soon starts to cross over into general ride discussion etc.  Quite quickly, you'd end up with an absolute myriad of topics which are criss crossing discussion, some just repeating what has already been said and others just dying a death and cluttering up a sub forum which was created for the sole purpose of trying to make keeping an eye on discussion simple. 

Remember the Thorpe topics we had a while back?  We had a multitude of separate topics discussing the future of the park with points being discussed in one topic being missed on another.  We're going to have a huge amount of new users wishing to contribute to the forum, and keeping discussion limited to a few simple topics makes things much easier to follow than having discussion split off into tens of topics.

[Sam]

But you could argue the same thing about the main forum? There's lots of overlap in the forum in general. By your logical extension, the forum would just be "Nemesis: General Discussion", "Duel: General Discussion", "Toilets: General Discussion". The benefits of the flourishing of debate outweighs the slight overlap of discussion.

I don't really plan on reading the SW7 topics based on my experience of the SW6 topics, as you have multiple conversations about different parts of the ride crossing over each other in one topic, and no progress is ever made. If this is the way the SW7 subforum is going to be run, there's no point in having a subforum at all.

[Craig]

Personally, I preferred the SW6 topics as they were setup.  They flowed much better than allowing individual topics to be created.  You can't really compare the discussion of a whole park to the discussion of one major new addition to the park which generates a huge influx of posts and discussion, far more than the general chat we normally have regarding the various aspects of the park.

Would be interested to hear other people's views though.....

[Sam]

I know a lot of people who found the SW6 topics unreadable. You can never get any discussion going unless you want to talk about the BIG issues, like the ride manufacturer or whatever. Say someone wanted to talk just about the layout of the queue. Perfectly reasonable and nerdy topic that some people might be interested in! If it's posted in the SW7 subforum as it stands, it hasn't got a hope in hell of being noticed. If it's posted as it's own topic, then it's bound to get replies from people interested in discussing it. The huge mega-topics stifle a lot of debate about anything but the BIG issues.

I'd say that unless you can create your own topics, it doesn't really deserve to be called a sub-"forum" at all. The topics may as well just be pinned to the top of AT Future. There's a huge amount of beautiful, nerdy, in-detail never-gonna-get-laid posts waiting to flourish in that sub-forum, if only they'll be set freeee! They don't stand a chance in the monolithic mega-threads.

edit: I think a good compromise would be allowing people to make their own topics, but with heavy moderation in terms of closing down crap topics and merging topics together.

[formula1fan]

Personally, I think that it would be better if people weren't allowed to create their own topics in the SW7 Subforum, as it would allow the discussions to be a lot easier for users to follow. I just don't think that allowing users to create their own topics regarding SW7 would be of any benefit to anybody.

[Sam]

But the topics at the moment are impossible for anyone to follow, as you have ten different conversations happening at once and no progress is ever made. If we could discuss detailed things like the shop or the queue in their own topics, then we might actually learn something and move forwards in some way.

I really feel very strongly about this. Allowing people to start their own topics but with heavy moderation and editing is the only way to go.

[DiogoJ42]

Just do what I do Sam... Ignore the whole thing. The only FACTS we know are the plans... you aren't going to find out anything else by reading other people's fantasy theories.

[James]

Craig, will there be a FAQ topic just like we had in the SW6 forums? I created the FAQ back when SW6 was up, if you and the team have not already got plans for this perhaps that would be a good topic to create at some point, as some members do get a bit lost with the actual facts of the ride (such as the manufacturer looking at today's topic). I'll throw myself out and say I'll help with a FAQ topic again if one is on the horizon. I quite liked making the SW6 one. :P

As for creating your own topics in the SW7 forum. I'm against the idea. The problem is, it will start off nice and simple at first, then as the months go on topics will keep overlapping, you'll have one off topics with newbies asking questions like "when does it open?". It will just end up in utter chaos. I would say the only way it  could work is if the team recruited a few more moderators temporarily over the course of the SW7 development to keep an eye on the sub-forum. As I don't believe, what with all the excitement and how many people get attracted to this site during the development of secret weapons that the current team would be able to keep an eye on everything going on.

I just think things will be as fine as they were when the SW6 forum was up. the discussions were spread out quite nicely back then and worked well. Then the FAQ topic back then was useful for those visitors to the site that just wanted a quick answer, or those who wanted to know something without having to go through pages and pages to find what they need.

[Sam]

As the SW7 discussion is going to rumble on for the next two years, I think it's important to get it right. The monolithic topics are a massive turn-off for anyone who doesn't want to wade through 15 pages away of confusing and unfocused discussion.

I suggest that as an experiment, we allow people to make topics, with heavy moderation, for one week. Just one week and see how it goes. If people don't like it, then fine. But it could make the sub-forum invaluably better and richer. Let's try it for a week and then put it to the vote. If it doesn't work, forget about it. If it does, we have a better forum for everyone.

[The its man]

I do believe that more than one topic should be made for the developments of SW7 as it is difficult to read without having to go back 5 pages of posts to get an idea of what's being debated.  I understand that it would be difficult for the admins to allow people to create topics freely about SW7 (with the potential of a lot of spamming and/or negativity) and for that reason, would it not be possible for the admins to make the subcategory topics themselves?

[Craig]

We're looking to go along the same lines as SW6, so yes James there'll still be an FAQ/roundup topic as there was previously.  Something along the lines of:

- Official Update topic: A roundup of what we know so far from news articles/FAQ etc

- Ride speculation and discussion: Discussing the specifics of the ride itself such as ride elements/themes etc

- Area speculation and discussion: Discussing any changes to X Sector and the surrounding area

- Marketing and Viral campaign speculation and discussion: Discussion of any potential marketing campaigns

- Construction Topic: Self explanatory, this will remain locked until groundwork starts

[Sam]

But what if people want to discuss something really specific like the shop? They could gather in that topic, and the other "big" topics wouldn't get cluttered up with that discussion. How it is at the moment, those posts just won't get made, as they'd get lost in the monolith.

Can we not just try an open and free sub-forum, just for a week? If it doesn't work then no harm done, if it does work then it could greatly improve the forum. I don't see why we shouldn't give it a shot...

[James]

I'm sorry Sam but why the hell would we want a whole topic discussing a shop? :P

I'm sure that's the last thing people care about. We all know by now what to expect from a shop. 

[Sam]

I'm sorry Sam but why the hell would we want a whole topic discussing a shop? :P

One thing you should know about this forum James is that their is a huge range in the level of enthusiasm. Some will just want to talk about a rollercoaster that goes upside down really fast. Some find it really enjoyable to talk in detail about support structures, or queue topography. The forum should (and does) cater to both these groups. The hardcore nerds have just as much right to be here as you do.

My suggestion in full: tonight, open up the SW7 subforum to new topics being created. In a week's time, make a poll in this topic about what people think. If people are overall in favour, then put it to the team. If they're also in favour, then keep it. If either of the above two groups are against it, scrap it. Just give it a chance to see how it'll improve the forum.

[Dormiens-Dave]

The thing is Sam you start your topic on a shaop then someone goes "ohh and that could be linked in with the toilet retheme" we then get discussion on toilets then how the track goes over the toilets and how the track looks so great and before you know it that topic has blown into full SW7 discussion.

For your idea to work people would have to be constantly referencing other topics and posting links ect and it will get very confusing. Also we cant always guarentee the ability to have heavy moderation even if we recruited 10 new team members, everyone tends to work between 9am and 5pm.

[Sam]

I don't think that would happen if you made it clear in the sub-forum rules that people must stay focused. I think it's quite obvious that a topic about "SW7 Queue" should only contain posts about the SW7 queue.

When I say heavy moderation, I don't mean constant round-the-clock attention, but just a lot more strict on the creation of new topics and more strict on deleting posts that wander off topic. Let's give it a try, just for a week.

[Dormiens-Dave]

What about the confusion when your trying to link in discussion that does relate to another topic, we will end up with repeats of discussion on multiple topics.