Forum & Meet Changes

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:24 pm

I hate to start one of 'these' types of topics but I feel I must express my feelings on TTF over the last year. I hate to say it but I now find reading these forums a chore not a pleasure. It appears the love for Alton has been over-shadowed by egotism & arrogance as oppose to healthy discussion & debate. The anarchy of some long standing posters is making it near impossible to have a healthy discussion anymore.

Where is the excitement gone for new rides? the build up? All we get now is moaning about, names, ride systems, planning, trees, anything people can use as an opportunity to stick the boot in at Alton. I realise many have been "spoilt" by European parks but topics like SW7 & N:ST are being ruined by reams & reams of moaning crap. How is it people are experts on rides which have not even been built yet? What happened to the excitement?

There are a group of posters on this forum which bully their view points into situations and are left un-noticed. I know there's a report button and what not, but in most instances there's nothing the team can really do about it. If they do they get called "communists" Now I don't claim to be perfect, far from it. But my posts have dipped of late because I found myself during 2011 battling against those who were essentially running this forum (not the team)

Then there's meet-ups, whilst I think it's great that meets are getting bigger each year I feel they're also getting worse. Meets are now plagued with drama, alcohol & falling out because the person you shagged last meet is now shagging someone else. It just ruins the atmosphere and can be intimidating for newer members. There was a time when I'd go around and speak to anyone who's new and try and make them feel at ease but you can't do that now. There's always faff, group breaking, or someone who's not talking to another person because they pinched their hair bobble. I know evolution is going to happen as the years pass but it is troubling.

Again, I felt I should speak up and air these concerns as TTF is fast becoming a place where people come to relieve their own issues and battle everyone else as oppose to a place where discussions can take place about a park we're supposed to love.

I do feel sorry for the team as TTF is so big now, keeping control whilst remaining fair has to be a very difficult job.

I also apologise for adding more stress to the team for their incoming diplomatic posts.

/moan over

AstroDan · Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:36 pm

I don't particularly agree regarding meets. Although I would agree that there was a problem with some members earlier in 2011, I felt that by Scarefest and Fireworks this was, for the most part, gone and that certain individuals did pay a price for their actions.

Unfortunately, with large groups of young people, there are always going to be individuals who cause trouble or stir drama. I am unsure what can be done about this, if anything at all.

Regarding the forum and discussion of Alton, I am afraid 7 years of no thrill rides at all is taking its toll on Alton enthusiasts, simple as that. As much as we all like to think its not 'all about the thrills', let's be honest here - it made the place what it is and is for most of us the parks bread and butter. Once they put forward a good plan which clearly matches what the likes of Thorpe, Heide and Gardaland are doing, sh am sure it'll pick up.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:46 pm

AstroDan wrote: Regarding the forum and discussion of Alton, I am afraid 7 years of no thrill rides at all is taking its toll on Alton enthusiasts, simple as that. As much as we all like to think its not 'all about the thrills', let's be honest here - it made the place what it is and is for most of us the parks bread and butter. Once they put forward a good plan which clearly matches what the likes of Thorpe, Heide and Gardaland are doing, sh am sure it'll pick up.

I suppose that I am one of the few that think Th13teen was great investment, it is after all my 2nd favorite coaster in the park, but that's down to my own opinion.

What I can't understand is this comparison, you yourself even stated that Krake was nothing special & Raptor is their only major investment for sometime as well. As for Thorpe, I agree they are investing heavily of late but SAW is on a par with Th13teen as investments go in my view and The Swarm is going to be fantastic I'm sure, but then we have SW7 in response, which I agree must be on the same level as the other parks. That said I think people are just moaning for moaning's sake in all fairness. Yes Alton have done many things wrong this past year, and the greed is evident but to warrant this amount of backlash? Not for me it doesn't. Hell, I was the biggest moaner of Scarefest this year as it's my favorite event but even I will hope it improves for next season.

My main issue with the forum is the style of posting this past year, the two future ride topics were the best examples of the behavior befitting my views.

.Will · Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:58 pm

Spike wrote: My main issue with the forum is the style of posting this past year, the two future ride topics were the best examples of the behavior befitting my views.

I posted a topic a couple of months back regarding these two topics, the quality of posting is so poor this seems to have spread to the entire forum now and since the ride name has been released for the 2012 attraction the amount of face pulling has increased yet again.

When I posted that topic I hoped that someone would have picked up on the underlying issue of post quality this cannot be blamed on the younger members because a select few seem to know how to use capital letters and full stops but it just seems to me that no one cares any more, when I was a newbie I'd come on to the forums and I'd love to see the deep discussion about every aspect of the ride (something which you don't get on other forums) I remember reading Mick's(?) huge post in the Th13teen topic talking about the drop section, you see nothing like that now apart from the odd outburst of brilliance which was something you'd see on a regular basis.

The future topics are stuffed with people talking about wooden coasters or something that is far too unfeasible for Alton Towers, I can understand people wanting to dream but surely there is a place for that i.e. your head?

I know I have not always been the best of members, some moments of my TT history I'd love to forget as they are deeply embarrassing but I'd like to think I have improved over the last year or so I'd like to think that everyone deserves a chance and of course the chance to improve, I also don't want to single anyone out and say, no you can't post but maybe people should just think twice before they click 'post'.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:05 pm

.Will wrote: I also don't want to single anyone out and say, no you can't post but maybe people should just think twice before they click 'post'.

That is one thing I will also avoid. Whilst these are my own views, people may or may not agree with what I've said so naming names has no relevance. What it will do is cause more issues and render this topic as nothing more than a way to insult or bitch about certain members, which is not what I wanted it to be.

.Will · Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:13 pm

Well there is no doubt that no one should be denied but it isn't a free for all to say what you like with out regard that people behind the avatars are actually people.

AstroDan · Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:15 pm

It is also Closed Season. Alton are so tight lipped about developments now that there is actually, barely anything to discuss.

It's not like Disney, Europa or other where there is an event or development cropping up every week - there simply is not much to talk about.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:18 pm

Personally, I havent yet noticed any major issues outside of the Future areas in terms of post quality - although there is always a rise in closed season of posts that do not necessarily contribute anything new to the forum. I agree the Future topics may need more moderation at times, but as a moderator, it is quite tricky to decide where to draw the line between allowing discussion to flow freely and letting the topic fill up with pointless rubbish.

My thoughts on meets are summed up by AstroDan's post above - I think the people involved in the drama at South last year have also come on a long way (and indeed grown up a bit) since then which is good to see, and I dont currently envisage a repeat incident happening on any forthcoming meet (although, as Dan stated, it is impossible to ensure totally).

I suppose that as a moderator and meet co-ordinator on another forum I may be showing a slight bias towards the team here, but I'm honestly not sure what else they can do that they are not already.

.Will · Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:24 pm

AstroDan wrote: It is also Closed Season. Alton are so tight lipped about developments now that there is actually, barely anything to discuss.

There is nothing wrong with fun and games I understand that but some posts are completely unreadable and punctuation is an unknown concept. Is it too much to ask for a basic level of post quality, it's in the guidelines after all.

Big Dave · Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:29 pm

I agree there are issues, but I disagree that the forum is worse now than its ever been. Remember the old days when the forum came very close to being shut down due to bitching and problems?

New members join all the time and a lot of them are commenting that the forum is a great place to be. Meetup numbers are on the increase again showing that more new members are willing to come on the meets with us. While the forum is not perfect (and probably never will be) its in a far better shape now than it was just a few years back!

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:41 pm

I've not really been here long enough to pass a good enough comment, but I come on TTF more than any other forum (and I moderate on a huge one). I joined, got stuck in, enjoyed the debate and have stayed.

Whilst there does seem to be pointless bickering and conversations that sometimes go round in circles in the future forum, I don't think that it is particularly that detrimental to the TTF experience as a whole. It must be a hard job for the team to strike a balance between encouraging everyone to post and moderating the discussion to stop it from getting out of hand.

In terms of the SW7 and N:S-T topics I'm sure I remember seeing that the team have plans to split the discussion to try and control the discussion?

Also, I can't comment on meets, having never been on one but from my interactions with members, I think that they would be a great thing to go on.

I guess what I am basically trying to say is that I have felt extremely welcomed here since my first post and my first time on chat... So I don't think the problem is as bad as it could be - but then I can't really compare to the past!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AstroDan · Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:45 pm

Big Dave wrote: Remember the old days when the forum came very close to being shut down due to bitching and problems?

Quite right - back in the closed season 2006-7 we almost lost the forums entirely and that was far worse than any of the issues raised now. Without wishing to sound patronising, I doubt many current members even remember the horrendous period endured on the forums back then.

I agree that there are some issues, and the team are currently in discussion about some of the issues raised - particularly regarding post quality. We have a SW7 sub forum in development which will come into use once there is more information to discuss surrounding the attraction.

However, I would really ask that everyone exercises some restraint in their concern. The SW6 threads between 2007 and 2009 were full of repetitive waffle at times, and this is principally down to the popularity of the forums.

TTF is what you make of it.

Dormiens-Dave · Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:50 pm

One thing i will agree on is SPG is getting worse. This has been mentioned in team discussion and some work is going on with some of the worst offenders.

If you see really bad SPG though please report the post so we see it. There is Astro Chris Me Craig and Joel who can edit posts but considering we all have full time jobs we probably equal one full time person modding the forum and we cant read everything. Therefore reporting is essential as we can clean up the posts and the new forum software allows us to highlight members who are regularly poor posting so all of the team are aware and we can guide them.

At the end of the day the forum is only as good as its members make it so we need everyones help in this. We are a better forum than the worst of days back in the mists of time but if we want to keep it that way we do need to pull together (churchill moment).

EDIT: What dan said

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:52 pm

I think maybe in general I could be accused of a fair amount of negativity, both now and in the past. However the one development I am genuinly positive about everybody else seems to have it in for. I just don't understand the big issue.

Do people seem to think that every new ride should be revolutionary and a world's first? For goodness sake, we all know 2011 was a damp squib almost in its entirety for Alton Towers, with no new ride and all the rest of the rubbish the year brought. Yes, it is dissappointing that we are not seeing the Black Hole site or the Flume redeveloped yet or a new children's ride, flat ride or live show at the park but at least they are building something which sounds at least relatively exciting. No, I am not one of these people who thinks we should be"grateful" they are investing in a new ride, given their track record and position in this country this is something that they are expected to do. At least if they want to stay on top anyway.

I will be the first to admit that I am cynical about almost everything the park does these days. For example as you know on the whole I am not a fan of most of the hotel changes - almost completely against the general consensus. I have posted in numerous topics about what I think of the state of the park these days, because let's face it - it has NEVER looked worse.

I am looking forward to this year's ride, I know that it is not going to be anything mind blowing but it is revitilising an otherwise drab section of the park and I am grateful for this. The fact it is probably going to be a thrill ride, compact, but nonetheless a thrill ride is also a positive prospect. And with the British climate, another indoor attraction is always welcome. At the end of the day, this is just a medium investment, nothing special just a decent filler to add to the park's lineup.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:01 pm

AstroDan wrote:Regarding the forum and discussion of Alton, I am afraid 7 years of no thrill rides at all is taking its toll on Alton enthusiasts, simple as that. As much as we all like to think its not 'all about the thrills', let's be honest here - it made the place what it is and is for most of us the parks bread and butter. Once they put forward a good plan which clearly matches what the likes of Thorpe, Heide and Gardaland are doing, sh am sure it'll pick up.

I don't think this is justification for the attitude that comes across with some members. In fact, in a large number of cases, the criticism given to the park I would agree is done in a constructive way.

It's not easy saying this, because I've been around here a long time and my involvement is very slowly dwindling because I too, no longer find Towers Times a joy to read or be involved in - and this goes far deeper than post quality.

More often than not, you get a 'my opinion is better than yours so suck it' attitude from a number of people. There is, without a doubt, a clearly evident clique amongst a group of members, and this not only makes it difficult for new members to integrate with community, but it can make older members feel like they no longer have a place here anymore.

I do agree with Astrodan that referencing the dark times of Winter 2006 is a little excessive. Unless the dark lord is plotting his return, and the clique is merely a guise for his deatheaters? Nope? Ha, looking back though. It all seems so childish now!

Craig · Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:06 pm

Astrodan has pretty much said most of what I wanted to say, and mrbrightside was dead on in saying it's difficult to strike a balance between choking off discussion and allowing things to flow. Having enough time to deal with things has been difficult over recent weeks due to team absences with Christmas/New Year etc going on, but I think we're about ready to get back on track. There are a few things which we'll be doing as a team, some of which people have touched on:

- SW7 subforum. This is ready to go, and will be setup in much the same way that we had a sub forum for SW6. However, we're conscious not to launch it too early as we'll just end up with multiple topics featuring pretty much nothing. Once we have further solid information then the sub forum will launch.

- Post Quality. There'll be an announcement at the top of the forum shortly referring to a topic regarding post quality. How effective such an announcement is is debatable, and we'll need your help as well as the work we do in making this work. In addition, we'll also be around a little more from now to deal with poor quality posts and reports.

So, that's what the team will be doing, but we also need your help. Remember, as others have already said - every single person on this forum helps make it what it is. I know we may sound a little like a broken record with this, but in addition to the forum guidelines, please please take note of the following:

Be patient - Everyone is a newbie at some point, we're all human and we all make mistakes. Be respectful in your replies, remember it's only a forum and don't get personal or come across as aggressive. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, remember to discuss and not to shoot down. Flag anything you see which is unsuitable (see below!)

Flag posts - If you see something with poor SPG or which is unsuitable, click the flag post button. It takes seconds to do, and ensures the post can be reviewed by a team member as quickly as possible. Don't try to moderate posts or members yourself.

Have fun! - This one might seem obvious, but remember what the forum is all about. We're all here to discuss the things we love as theme park enthusiasts. Chat away, make your points, but remember at the end of the day it's just a forum. Don't take things to heart, and remember if things get too heated just take a step back and chill! We have such a diverse group of people but ultimately we're all here for the same reason - don't get stressed and just enjoy it!

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:18 pm

One other thing I wanted to say is that this kind of feeling happens every few months on any large forum. I moderate and have been a member of a big forum for over 5 years now and every now and again the "older" members will say that the forum isn't as good as it used to be and they don't feel like posting much any more. The same things will come up on every big forum and have been mentioned here, such as new members not posting "well," cliques being too, well, cliquey and so on. It's a cycle though, newer members will grow into the forum with time and then probably be the ones writing these kinds of topics.

Forums are what we make of them, and it takes a little bit of effort by everyone to make things better.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:36 pm

I personally don't feel as an "older" member that my view points are not welcomed anymore or that I'm a part of any "clique" I've always been an outspoken member and even back in the day a handful myself. What I find is the issue is the dominance of a group of members who post and the attitude "You're wrong & I'm right" which exudes.

Secondly is the negativity towards anything that's new, the topics are riddled with people who claim to know everything before a foundation is layed and have already resigned themselves to the fact it's going to be "crap" before they've even ridden it. As mentioned N:ST is a filler ride and whilst everyone expects every addition to be world class this is never going to be the case and is also down to personal opinions, especially when it came to Th13teen. I have said it before and I'll say it again, those who expected Th13teen to be anything other than what it was led themselves up the garden path, as it was clear from the pictures what it was going to be. I do - however - agree that a lot more could have been done to make the ride more theatrical in both the crypt & tunnel.

I think the expectations year upon year are so high because of European parks that anything that Alton do will never be up to scratch. As I was just saying to Craig, I expect and know that Europa will steal the Alton crown as it's clear to see the park is outstanding in every way, but I take Alton for what it is and treat each year as it comes rather than moan constantly about how these new rides must be world class. I prefer to wait and judge for myself.

Big Dave · Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:04 pm

Different people have different views has each person is.... different! What Im trying to say is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and thats all what it is, their opinion. If someone says something you don't like, then that's doesn't mean you or them are wrong. Its your opinion and your entitled to it. There is no point arguing between each other because someone doesn't agree with you. I also agree that some people post on here saying they know something is going to be rubbish before they see it. They too are entitled to their opinion, but they should at least try and back up their statement.

All in all, the forum has a fairly decent mix of people and views on things. Alton Towers has upset people with a fairly average ride being added and then bumping up the costs, but I also think the park has some very good events and they have some interesting developments in the pipeline. I don't know much about the future developments and don't go boasting saying I do. That's not to say that people who claim to know stuff are telling lies either. They just need to be able to back up what they say.

The forum is a great place and is constantly changing and improving things. Problems will occur, but during closed season this is normal.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:13 pm

Big Dave wrote: Different people have different views has each person is.... different! What Im trying to say is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and thats all what it is, their opinion.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it

I am not moaning at peoples opinions Dave, give me some credit. It's the manner in which people conduct themselves in ~~moaning~~ discussions that's bugging me and others.