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Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:58 am
by daboywunda
To be fair, we were flabbergasted at the complete contrast in cultures between "us" and "travellers" (wanting for a better comparison) - But I think we got through the day by being astounded at some of the way the young.. erm... ladies were dressed. It's just another world. And as I said, the all-in-one colours when in a group looked just like the power rangers! Or... That a pack of skittles had thrown up.. in 4D.. over the park mixed together with a lot of fake tan!
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:04 am
by Ritadz
*sighs*
It's things like this that for me really is the cherry on top on the cake that is my criticism of Alton Towers Management. I'm sorry but playing the "PC" card is not a good enough reason to ruin people's days due to some rowdy gypsies, they
need to let guests know the real reason why they didn't serve beer yesterday, not try and pass it off as being family friendly. While I agree that not selling alcohol was the correct choice, advertising the day as "family fun day" defiantly was not. A business has the right to bar customers that cause a scene and are harmful to both staff and other guests, so why can't Alton grow a pair and do that? Oh yeah, because some people might get offended.
Seriously, this happens every bloody year, so surely the park would have learned their lesson by now. These people have a notorious reputation for trouble, yet the wonder that is AT management decides that it's all fine to not bother letting people know their day will probably get ruined by certain people.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:05 am
by CJH
Two dates to keep away from if you don't want to come across the problems.
Easter Sunday
First Sunday of Scarefest.
Both days where travellers are in huge numbers. Don't get me wrong from working at the park, some and most go about their day without causing trouble and are very polite.
But there is the select few groups that go to cause problems. Which is a shame for guests that are harmless.
I experienced bad time with certain travellers 2010 Scarefest when walking past Woodcutters going on my break. On my own it was dark, and there was around 2/300 travellers getting pissed and lary outside. Was so intimidated.
But Towers do try their best to ensure safety of guests and staff.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:08 am
by CJH
Ritadz wrote:
*sighs*
It's things like this that for me really is the cherry on top on the cake that is my criticism of Alton Towers Management. I'm sorry but playing the "PC" card is not a good enough reason to ruin people's days due to some rowdy gypsies, they
need to let guests know the real reason why they didn't serve beer yesterday, not try and pass it off as being family friendly. While I agree that not selling alcohol was the correct choice, advertising the day as "family fun day" defiantly was not. A business has the right to bar customers that cause a scene and are harmful to both staff and other guests, so why can't Alton grow a pair and do that? Oh yeah, because some people might get offended.
Seriously, this happens every bloody year, so surely the park would have learned their lesson by now. These people have a notorious reputation for trouble, yet the wonder that is AT management decides that it's all fine to not bother letting people know their day will probably get ruined by certain people.
Sorry but I totally disagree with your post. Especially by saying bar them all. That is generalising on a huge scale. Thats like saying:
A gay guy causes a massive scene as he is too fat to get onto a ride. I know lets bar all gays/all larger guests.
Not all the travellers are trouble causers. Yes a lot of them dress shockingly, some of them que jump etc. But not all of them are like this. Banning them all is just stupid, they are paying guests at the end of the day. Even if some of them behave worse than animals in a zoo.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:10 am
by Ritadz
Sorry, but what?
Where did I categorically state "Ban all gypsies"?
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:16 am
by CJH
Sorry mis-read on my part. But still try enforcing a ban of certain people.
I have seen it for myself in past times, of certain people getting bans from the hotels. Yet when booking a room etc, they change names. Have false ID and can get back into the park/hotel etc.
It's harder than it seems for such a big resort.
What would you like them to do? Have wanted posters around the park on certain days of the year?
In quelines? Maybe a txt this number if you see this person etc.
Could be free entertainment like a giant hide and seek, and a good money maker for Merlin!
But seriously it aint as easy as it seems.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:22 am
by Ritadz
CJH wrote:
What would you like them to do?
Simple. Kick out the trouble makers.
I thought that was made clear enough in my first post.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:27 am
by CJH
Towers kick out plenty of guests especially on these days, when they have caused trouble.
No it wasn't made clear, you said BAN them all. Well the trouble makers.
I was making it clear that it wasn't just as easy as that.
I seen plenty of people being kicked out/held in security til being arrested etc.
They will quite happily remove trouble causers.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:36 am
by Ritadz
CJH wrote:
Towers kick out plenty of guests especially on these days, when they have caused trouble.
No it wasn't made clear, you said BAN them all. Well the trouble makers.
I was making it clear that it wasn't just as easy as that.
I seen plenty of people being kicked out/held in security til being arrested etc.
They will quite happily remove trouble causers.
No, I didn't. My exact words were "bar guests that cause a scene and are harmful to both staff and other guests". Also, they obviously aren't removing trouble causers very well if the atmosphere is still intimidating to the average guest.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:28 am
by BigAl
jayron7 wrote:
BigAl wrote:
jayron7 wrote:
When I asked the police why, they said its because of the bank holiday weekend! A little honesty wouldn't go astray!
Eh? They aren't exactly going to turn around in front of everyone and say "we're being strict because lots of gypsies/travelers are coming today and they are going to cause fuss", or something along those lines. That wouldn't have gone down very well at all, really. They dealt with things in a subtle way that didn't cause offense as it was used on everyone (even if it was intended for a different group of guests) as opposed to singling certain guests out.
I still feel that a year round dress code should be put in place as it is a family theme park and there are some guests that won't appreciate people walking around in certain... attire (if any at all :P )! This is also another way of dealing with any problems without discriminating against a certain group of people. If parks like Disney and Europa can have dress codes then there is absolutely no reason why Alton Towers can't either.
There's a difference between them saying "it's a bank holiday weekend and it might be busy", to "we're here because last year somebody got there head kicked in"! Obviously not those exact words! At least I could make a decision whether or not I still wanted to take my family in!
I agree with matt1980uk! It's not fair for people who pay a lot of money to get in for a nice day out with their family! I don't care about political correctness, I care about the safety of my family!
But there were probably travellers in the queue along side you. They aren't going to blurt out anything like that or it will just cause unwanted trouble. If nothing at all happened yesterday then Alton Towers clearly took all of the right procedures. It sounds very different to when I went the day they came to Scarefest last year. Count yourselves lucky. Last year the security and staff awareness wasn't even close to what they had planned this time around and things around the park were getting broken.
It wasn't all of them, so it would be unfair to say that they were all responsible. I too hate people behaving like this at a place I love, but they paid and had every right to be there. Once anything kicked off, staff and police dealt with them and that, besides introducing any more rules, is all they can really do.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:59 am
by jayron7
I wasn't in the que at the time. I asked one of the police standing alone!
Since it happened last year and things got quite ugly, don't you think it would be courteous to let people know this, so they could make a decision whether they wished to go in or not? I'm not saying ban them or anything and you are correct, they are paying and have a right to go. I'm Just saying, forget political correctness and be honest with people who are also paying customers and have a right to enjoy there day out with there family
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:26 am
by Wildboy
I think it would have been a good idea to have some sort of informative message at the entrance. something along the lines of
'We expect the park to be very busy today and heightened security is in place. Please be aware that Q jumpers, thieves and abuse will not be tolerated. If you are a family with young children, you may like to visit tomorrow instead'
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:49 am
by aru
Sorry - what are you showing us in these pictures? Look, gypsies!
I'm not advocating any of the trouble at the park, but from what I can gather nothing serious happened and the park handled it well without any PR implications. Yes this happens every year and people on here get really passionate about it - but it is not going to go away!
Gypises and travellers have a deeply insular 'culture' with problems that will not go away if you simply say - "I hate them - they are scum - they should just go away". Pretty immature in my eyes. I have met several gypsy and traveller families though past university research and I have to say that my prejudices were challenged! Not a perfect set of people by any stretch of the imagination, but I would struggle to hate them like some people do on here.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:32 am
by lioncount
We left the park Sunday morning, so I can't comment on how it was. Saturday guests on the park were fine. My main gripe was being kept awake most of the night in the hotel.. then opening the curtains to a rubbish dump. It's disappointing, but you get good and bad in all walks of life. I don't hate travellers, although I was pretty miffed with the family who caused us a journey home on two hours sleep. I guess the thing is, as a parent of young children there are certain things you do not want your little ones to see, spitting, fighting, foul language.. for the parents who are unaware of Easter weekend who spent a fair amount of money on a 'family day out' it must be disappointing to say the least.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:53 pm
by thefatone
Think the situation was far improved this year. Much more comfortable.
Let's hope we get an alcohol free family day to celebrate the first sunday of scarefest as well
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:04 pm
by Dormiens-Dave
Seems like Towers did the best they could in these circumstances, i often go on the first Sunday of scarefest and know the sort of intimidating atmosphere that comes with the situation. By the looks of most of the comments Towers did a fairly good job of controlling the behavior
Its very hard to police such a situation without a 5 to 1 ratio of security personal which is obviously impossible to achieve.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:07 pm
by rah_rah
Alton stepped up security/organization and pre-planning this year, and it was a big success in comparison to other years with far fewer problems on park.
There was always going to be problems that couldn't be stopped
The police presence were there due to it being a bank holiday and I imagine to support what plans Alton had put in place, granted not the full circle of truth but the truth nonetheless.
Alcohol sales were stopped and I imagine this played a massive role in keeping problems down. Whether this happens on other days when Alton have a lot more to lose, Halloween, will remain the decision of the management.
Sometimes it seems that place cant do wrong for doing right by some of you. You all understand the problems they face and they clearly went to great lengths to improve on last year. And they did. It was a success.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:53 pm
by djtruefitt
It will be interested to see how towers handle scarefest, as I think this tends to be alot worse because of the park being open till 9pm, darkness, etc. I hope they have just as much security and no alcohol then.
Also I think if people have had a bad day then they should complain to towers, even if its not towers fault, they still let the guests into the park, and if their guests ruin other guests days, then its up to towers to sort it out. Im sure if they had enough complains, they would try even harder to stop the same problems next year.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:54 pm
by mrbrightside
damos1 wrote:<stuff about posting pics>
damos nobody was having a go at your photos. I, like many others were just confused as to what the point in them was as they were posted with no context or reasoning.
It was just a bunch of pictures of travellers and police. So we were all left to make our own conclusions as to what your post was about. Pictures are nothing without the context in which you wish them to be seen.
Re: Travellers on park
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:05 pm
by Tom G
Matt, welcome to the forum and thanks for your insight, albeit a disturbing one!
Don't regret buying the passes based on today. You will have a great time any other day of the year at the park (barring the gypsy day on Scarefest if there is one every year).
Hopefully you'll get your money's worth out of Merlin's other attractions in the UK as well.