Corkscrew was what it was, whatever category you want it to fit in. It's like trying to force music into different genres.
A ride will probably be aimed at a specific market, and marketing will have a say in who they want to attract to the park. However, whatever the official 'thrill label' is, a good ride design should retain its own identity. The categories are just guidelines for people who would otherwise not be able to tell the difference.
Nemesis is extremely thrilling, but that is not the whole point of the ride; families can also ride once over the height limit, it was a big part of my family trips to Alton Towers. Perhaps in ten years Nemesis will no longer be considered as thrilling because the industry has moved on, does that make any difference to the actual ride?
____
Alton Towers will probably include What Lies Beneath as part of the thrill category, regardless of its real nature. It's just hype.
NO SPOILERS - 2012: Nemesis Sub-Terra... Part 2
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Javs
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Have I clicked on the wrong topic? I thought this was about the new ride for 2012!? Anyone got an idea on when planning permission is expected to be granted? It's getting on a bit now and concrete work will need to be done before the frosts set in!
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sibic
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[quote=""PeteB""]Blaze, just accept that Corkscrew was a thrill ride... because it WAS! A ride doesn't suddenly turn "family" just because newer and more intense rides came along.
Th13teen wasn't just badly received by enthusiasts. Most of the GP agree it was a let down, and that's because the park went to such lengths to promote it as a thrill ride when really they should have aimed it at families.
Both the park and Merlin talk some absolute rubbish sometimes. Remember John telling everyone at the Th13teen event that dark rides didn't work without an IP and so Merlin weren't interested in building such rides without one? Yet here we are, getting a brand new dark ride based on one of the parks own brands/back story.
I've no doubt in my mind that this new ride will be a success, and Merlin will see that perhaps sometimes the enthusiasts are right and do know what they're talking about.[/quote]
nemesis is an ip it's just one that Alton/Merlin came up with and own (i know it was not Merlin at the time). the dark ride is not based on a new story but uses nemesis back story. hex was not based on a ip as its a local legend that was developed.
Th13teen wasn't just badly received by enthusiasts. Most of the GP agree it was a let down, and that's because the park went to such lengths to promote it as a thrill ride when really they should have aimed it at families.
Both the park and Merlin talk some absolute rubbish sometimes. Remember John telling everyone at the Th13teen event that dark rides didn't work without an IP and so Merlin weren't interested in building such rides without one? Yet here we are, getting a brand new dark ride based on one of the parks own brands/back story.
I've no doubt in my mind that this new ride will be a success, and Merlin will see that perhaps sometimes the enthusiasts are right and do know what they're talking about.[/quote]
nemesis is an ip it's just one that Alton/Merlin came up with and own (i know it was not Merlin at the time). the dark ride is not based on a new story but uses nemesis back story. hex was not based on a ip as its a local legend that was developed.
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fredward
I thought thrill was dictated by how many people have died while on it?
Isnt that why th13teen is a thrill ride?
Isnt that why th13teen is a thrill ride?
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PeteB
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[quote=""sibic""][quote=""PeteB""]Blaze, just accept that Corkscrew was a thrill ride... because it WAS! A ride doesn't suddenly turn "family" just because newer and more intense rides came along.
Th13teen wasn't just badly received by enthusiasts. Most of the GP agree it was a let down, and that's because the park went to such lengths to promote it as a thrill ride when really they should have aimed it at families.
Both the park and Merlin talk some absolute rubbish sometimes. Remember John telling everyone at the Th13teen event that dark rides didn't work without an IP and so Merlin weren't interested in building such rides without one? Yet here we are, getting a brand new dark ride based on one of the parks own brands/back story.
I've no doubt in my mind that this new ride will be a success, and Merlin will see that perhaps sometimes the enthusiasts are right and do know what they're talking about.[/quote]
nemesis is an ip it's just one that Alton/Merlin came up with and own (i know it was not Merlin at the time). the dark ride is not based on a new story but uses nemesis back story. hex was not based on a ip as its a local legend that was developed.[/quote]
I think you need to read my post again. Nemesis isn't an IP.
Th13teen wasn't just badly received by enthusiasts. Most of the GP agree it was a let down, and that's because the park went to such lengths to promote it as a thrill ride when really they should have aimed it at families.
Both the park and Merlin talk some absolute rubbish sometimes. Remember John telling everyone at the Th13teen event that dark rides didn't work without an IP and so Merlin weren't interested in building such rides without one? Yet here we are, getting a brand new dark ride based on one of the parks own brands/back story.
I've no doubt in my mind that this new ride will be a success, and Merlin will see that perhaps sometimes the enthusiasts are right and do know what they're talking about.[/quote]
nemesis is an ip it's just one that Alton/Merlin came up with and own (i know it was not Merlin at the time). the dark ride is not based on a new story but uses nemesis back story. hex was not based on a ip as its a local legend that was developed.[/quote]
I think you need to read my post again. Nemesis isn't an IP.
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corkscru74
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[quote=""PeteB""]Both the park and Merlin talk some absolute rubbish sometimes. Remember John telling everyone at the Th13teen event that dark rides didn't work without an IP and so Merlin weren't interested in building such rides without one? Yet here we are, getting a brand new dark ride based on one of the parks own brands/backstory.[/quote]
[quote=""PeteB""][quote=""sibic""]
nemesis is an ip it's just one that Alton/Merlin came up with and own (i know it was not Merlin at the time). the dark ride is not based on a new story but uses nemesis back story. hex was not based on a ip as its a local legend that was developed.[/quote]
I think you need to read my post again. Nemesis isn't an IP.[/quote]
Ok so you're saying that Nemesis is a Brand and not an Intellectual Property...what's the difference?
There are definitely areas where both cross over but as far as I understand it, the term IP is given to a literary or musical creation. The nemesis backstory and theme music would surely qualify as such and is also an integral part of the Nemesis brand. Any ride based on this same backstory is based on the Nemesis IP.
With that in mind, you're right. Nemesis is not an IP but the backstory, music (and possibly even the themeing of it) are.
I don't think it matters whether the IP is bought from an external source e.g. a ride based on a blockbuster movie; or is created in house (or penned by a writer commisioned by AT). I believe what John Wardley was pointing out was that a dark ride without a story is, well, a lift
[quote=""PeteB""][quote=""sibic""]
nemesis is an ip it's just one that Alton/Merlin came up with and own (i know it was not Merlin at the time). the dark ride is not based on a new story but uses nemesis back story. hex was not based on a ip as its a local legend that was developed.[/quote]
I think you need to read my post again. Nemesis isn't an IP.[/quote]
Ok so you're saying that Nemesis is a Brand and not an Intellectual Property...what's the difference?
There are definitely areas where both cross over but as far as I understand it, the term IP is given to a literary or musical creation. The nemesis backstory and theme music would surely qualify as such and is also an integral part of the Nemesis brand. Any ride based on this same backstory is based on the Nemesis IP.
With that in mind, you're right. Nemesis is not an IP but the backstory, music (and possibly even the themeing of it) are.
I don't think it matters whether the IP is bought from an external source e.g. a ride based on a blockbuster movie; or is created in house (or penned by a writer commisioned by AT). I believe what John Wardley was pointing out was that a dark ride without a story is, well, a lift
Corky
TTF\'s Unofficial Marketing Guru
Being way too fond of his own opinion since 1983
TTF\'s Unofficial Marketing Guru
Being way too fond of his own opinion since 1983
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fredward
I just made an incredibly strange revelation about Nemesis - What Lies Beneath... But your not going to like it....
[spoiler:3eaq77pe]
Sorry for this rather pointless post! :P[/spoiler:3eaq77pe]
[spoiler:3eaq77pe]
Sorry for this rather pointless post! :P[/spoiler:3eaq77pe]
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sibic
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the whole ride is based on the back story to nemesis (which is going to be cool i hope) but that's altons ip all the resent dark rides I can think of are based on, ips wwohp, spider man, transformers, little mermaid, the mummy,. I do not think you need a ip for a good dark ride. and never is a long time i hope well get some thing truly original in a dark ride like hex or most of test track
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themealgang
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Right, time to report back my findings.
People over on Digital Spy tend to love Alton Towers in general, but think it's quite an expensive day out. They have a point. They seem to be excited about what the park have to offer in the future and us as enthusiasts are not the only ones that love a bit of Nemesis... it seems to have a special place in the public's heart too for being one of the best rides in the country.
People over on Digital Spy tend to love Alton Towers in general, but think it's quite an expensive day out. They have a point. They seem to be excited about what the park have to offer in the future and us as enthusiasts are not the only ones that love a bit of Nemesis... it seems to have a special place in the public's heart too for being one of the best rides in the country.
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SheikhSam
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I think the video on the micro-site is slightly lacking, the blinking eye at the end was a let down.
I'm hoping it's not a drop ride, watching the original marketing campaign made me think how much potential a 'haunted walkthrough' concept could have, maybe incorporate the lifts as mine shafts going down to the lower levels of an abandoned mine which reveals the coming of nemesis and which suprises it has in for us.
Like SAW: Alive, just scary..
With drop rides you know whats coming, and you know how it will end, and it always has the same feel to it.
I'm hoping it's not a drop ride, watching the original marketing campaign made me think how much potential a 'haunted walkthrough' concept could have, maybe incorporate the lifts as mine shafts going down to the lower levels of an abandoned mine which reveals the coming of nemesis and which suprises it has in for us.
Like SAW: Alive, just scary..
With drop rides you know whats coming, and you know how it will end, and it always has the same feel to it.
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Blaze
But it's not a simple dro pride, it's a dark ride built around a tower. Yes, it will have dropping in it, but that's not the main thing.
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CAWBieber
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Spoke to the Alton Towers hosts and they said the 2012 ride will take you up on a drop tower, then spin you at the top for a matter of how many seconds, then while its spinning, it will tell you the story of presumably Nemesis and what lies beneath. Then when you least expect it, it shall drop you down! Sounds interesting!
W@LLI$
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Blaze
I'm sure there'll be more to it than that, most ride-ops only know about as much as we do, but if it is true, they have clearly stolen my idea for a drop ride in the Black Hole tent that I posted on here several times. :P
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Blaze
Replace FV and Nemesis story with tent and Lord Of Darkness, and I came up with it about two years ago :P
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Vladimir Bobinski
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I see Merlin's obsession with container crate retail shops is dragging on.
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 676%29.pdf
I'm challenging myself not to spoil whatever the suprise is this time around.
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 676%29.pdf
I'm challenging myself not to spoil whatever the suprise is this time around.
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Vladimir Bobinski
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[quote=""cookiee_munster""]one question, is that the final name for the attraction? its a bit mouthy?[/quote]
I would be suprised. It's more of a question than a statement. I believe it's a tag line to get the imagination going. The answer will be the ride name.
I would be suprised. It's more of a question than a statement. I believe it's a tag line to get the imagination going. The answer will be the ride name.
