[quote=""Mi-Nigle""]Hats off to the guy, that took balls and the most interesting thing was he immediately got the support of the surrounding guests and they applauded the guy when she left.[/quote]
This is my point. Even if you personally may not be bothered, if one of your group makes a stand, it is quite frankly rude not to back them up.
Queue Jumping Hypocrisy
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Doopy Dan
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I dont attened meets (at the moment) due to commitments but im with Diogo here. Certainly I would jump in and back up if I was there. Obviously if it was a little kid of something who obviously has mates ahead then I would let it pass. Most of the time though, its not.
I would try to diffuse the situation and not let it turn heated, but if it turned heated because im standing up for whats right for everyone thats in the que then so be it. Im not scared of confrontation, im not scared of a bit of a punch up in self defence, if as an extreme last resort thats what it came too, but obviously that is in the most extreme case.
If other people turn away and pretend they cant see it or whatever when a mate is confronting a blatent jumper, then, that says alot about the person really doesnt it?
I would try to diffuse the situation and not let it turn heated, but if it turned heated because im standing up for whats right for everyone thats in the que then so be it. Im not scared of confrontation, im not scared of a bit of a punch up in self defence, if as an extreme last resort thats what it came too, but obviously that is in the most extreme case.
If other people turn away and pretend they cant see it or whatever when a mate is confronting a blatent jumper, then, that says alot about the person really doesnt it?
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Sam
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[quote=""Benedique""]Did any of us really want to be at Camelot on Sunday for any reason other than it was 'part of the meet'? We'd already done knightmare numerous times and when you couple that with us all being at Camelot for the sake of it then I think it gives you an answer as to why said queue jumper didn't really provoke a reaction from anybody other than yourself. [/quote]
I take more of an issue with this than the queuejumping subject. I'm sorry that so many of TTF couldn't bear to be in Camelot for the entire day. I know you'd all much rather be in corporate coffee outlets or the Trafford Centre. But last time I checked, we were theme park enthusiasts? A radical thought I know. Actually, many of us did want to stay until ride close at Camelot, because we paid to get in, they have two great coasters, and we very rarely go (relative to Alton Towers). I find it infuriating that so many people wanted to leave early, it's a complete waste of money.
I take more of an issue with this than the queuejumping subject. I'm sorry that so many of TTF couldn't bear to be in Camelot for the entire day. I know you'd all much rather be in corporate coffee outlets or the Trafford Centre. But last time I checked, we were theme park enthusiasts? A radical thought I know. Actually, many of us did want to stay until ride close at Camelot, because we paid to get in, they have two great coasters, and we very rarely go (relative to Alton Towers). I find it infuriating that so many people wanted to leave early, it's a complete waste of money.
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DiogoJ42
Thankyou, Sam. It's off topic from my original point, but I find it insultingly arrogant for someone to assume that just because they didn't want to be there, none of us did.
You guys are my friends, and I love meeting up with you, but the reason I go to parks is to ride coasters, not dance around being silly (we can do that in the evening when rides are closed), or spend hours on kiddy rides, or worse, sit around moaning.
You guys are my friends, and I love meeting up with you, but the reason I go to parks is to ride coasters, not dance around being silly (we can do that in the evening when rides are closed), or spend hours on kiddy rides, or worse, sit around moaning.
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Islander
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^Pretty much echo what they said. I wanted to leave fairly promptly after park close (and yet, ironically, our car was last out :P) because of a lovely 3.5 hour drive home, but whilst on park I wanted to enjoy myself (albeit at the same time as feeling rather ill). There was a definite apathy around on Sunday - sure, I can't honestly say that I 'liked' the park, in fact I mostly disliked it, but given that I'd a) travelled massively far to visit it, and b) paid to get in, I wanted to make the most of it. Yet there was so much talk of people leaving early that at one point I actually started planning to leave early as well, hell know'd why - sheer lunacy and compliance on my part.
Luckily (in my own opinion) the general mood wasn't low enough to impact on my day at the time, but to read a comment like that quoted is, to be honest, sad.
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To return to the topic in hand, I fear I may be one of those responsible for not chiming in. I really hate queue jumpers, and one side of me would love to actively block them, but I have two fears. Firstly, in this situation (and in queue-jumper situations alone, I'd like to think), I'm somewhat sheep-like - if the bulk of the group is united, I'll join in, but unfortunately more often than not my confidence is not great enough to either go it alone, or join in with just one or two others out of 20-odd.
Secondly, on a number of occasions (mostly with non-TTF friends, but with TTFers at least once or twice) I have plucked up the courage to speak up, only to be actively told not to by those I'm with. "Mark, it's really not a big deal, leave it" and the like. To have to tolerate queue jumpers is one thing, but to be chastised (albeit very, very mildly) by your peers is another, so in a way it's been 'trained out' of me.
I think interaction with staff is the key. I was shocked and appalled that the queue jumpers were pointed out to the staff on Knightmare, during a 'no queue jumping' announcement no less, and they did feck-all about it. On the flip side, I had massive problems with whole streams of queue jumpers at Atlantis in Legoland the other day, contacted guest services, and I received very quick feedback from the park, and my issue dealt was taken seriously. I am exceedingly unimpressed with the great lengths Camelot go to in signage, announcements etc. regarding queue jumping, the definition of it, and the consequences of it, only for their staff to completely ignore it when forced to at least acknowledge the issue.
To further this point, I think the best example I've seen to date (somewhat ironically, given the discussion of different attitudes in Europe) was an incident on Krake in Heide Park, Germany, over Easter. A father and son just calmly entered the very last section of the queue, right before the air gates, via a fire exit right in front of us. It was clear that people were disgruntled, but no one actually did anything. When the father/son got through the air gates, Astro, enormously to his credit, spoke to a ride host, and the host returned the father/son from whence they came - straight back out the fire exit :P. The point is, once this had happened, loads of people started laughing, smiling broadly and near-on clapping Dan - this begs the question, why didn't anyone else do anything? Clearly it was on many people's mind.
To summarise this far-too-long essay: there always needs to be one person who will sort of 'start' the refusal to queue jump, and (like others who have posted in this thread) that's unlikely to ever be me, but a) this should very quickly be backed up by others, and b) staff really should be involved if possible. If, like at Camelot, they're inept, it should be taken higher.
My apologies Diogo if I didn't back you up - it's a case of feeling comfortable to do so, or not in this case, and if a few more people had done, I would've.
Luckily (in my own opinion) the general mood wasn't low enough to impact on my day at the time, but to read a comment like that quoted is, to be honest, sad.
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To return to the topic in hand, I fear I may be one of those responsible for not chiming in. I really hate queue jumpers, and one side of me would love to actively block them, but I have two fears. Firstly, in this situation (and in queue-jumper situations alone, I'd like to think), I'm somewhat sheep-like - if the bulk of the group is united, I'll join in, but unfortunately more often than not my confidence is not great enough to either go it alone, or join in with just one or two others out of 20-odd.
Secondly, on a number of occasions (mostly with non-TTF friends, but with TTFers at least once or twice) I have plucked up the courage to speak up, only to be actively told not to by those I'm with. "Mark, it's really not a big deal, leave it" and the like. To have to tolerate queue jumpers is one thing, but to be chastised (albeit very, very mildly) by your peers is another, so in a way it's been 'trained out' of me.
I think interaction with staff is the key. I was shocked and appalled that the queue jumpers were pointed out to the staff on Knightmare, during a 'no queue jumping' announcement no less, and they did feck-all about it. On the flip side, I had massive problems with whole streams of queue jumpers at Atlantis in Legoland the other day, contacted guest services, and I received very quick feedback from the park, and my issue dealt was taken seriously. I am exceedingly unimpressed with the great lengths Camelot go to in signage, announcements etc. regarding queue jumping, the definition of it, and the consequences of it, only for their staff to completely ignore it when forced to at least acknowledge the issue.
To further this point, I think the best example I've seen to date (somewhat ironically, given the discussion of different attitudes in Europe) was an incident on Krake in Heide Park, Germany, over Easter. A father and son just calmly entered the very last section of the queue, right before the air gates, via a fire exit right in front of us. It was clear that people were disgruntled, but no one actually did anything. When the father/son got through the air gates, Astro, enormously to his credit, spoke to a ride host, and the host returned the father/son from whence they came - straight back out the fire exit :P. The point is, once this had happened, loads of people started laughing, smiling broadly and near-on clapping Dan - this begs the question, why didn't anyone else do anything? Clearly it was on many people's mind.
To summarise this far-too-long essay: there always needs to be one person who will sort of 'start' the refusal to queue jump, and (like others who have posted in this thread) that's unlikely to ever be me, but a) this should very quickly be backed up by others, and b) staff really should be involved if possible. If, like at Camelot, they're inept, it should be taken higher.
My apologies Diogo if I didn't back you up - it's a case of feeling comfortable to do so, or not in this case, and if a few more people had done, I would've.
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Dormiens-Dave
I can only reiterate TTF do stop queue Jumpers its been proven more times than i care to mention.. hence MY WIFE meme.
I wasn't in the knightmare queue at the time as i had just completed a number of rerides and needed the loo... i assume it was just lethargy that meant TTFers didn;t stand up.
As already said the earlier dragon flyer coaster was not the place for a group of adults to challenge a dad and his child for queue space of a KIDS coaster.
Also i dont recall anyone planning to leave Camalot early, the trouble with the park is that there are two good rides... after ride 18 on each, no matter how good it is people lose interest and therefore apathy sets in...
and as for the being silly, i dont generally dance around as its not my thing but the beauty of TTF is we are a geek group for everyone... not just the anoraks and the ride whores... i dont see the more casual members having a go at the ride whores so lets give them some slack too... i dont really like the idea of one type of person being forbidden from meets... the inclusiveness of TTF is what makes the group different from others and for that i will always be happy
I wasn't in the knightmare queue at the time as i had just completed a number of rerides and needed the loo... i assume it was just lethargy that meant TTFers didn;t stand up.
As already said the earlier dragon flyer coaster was not the place for a group of adults to challenge a dad and his child for queue space of a KIDS coaster.
Also i dont recall anyone planning to leave Camalot early, the trouble with the park is that there are two good rides... after ride 18 on each, no matter how good it is people lose interest and therefore apathy sets in...
and as for the being silly, i dont generally dance around as its not my thing but the beauty of TTF is we are a geek group for everyone... not just the anoraks and the ride whores... i dont see the more casual members having a go at the ride whores so lets give them some slack too... i dont really like the idea of one type of person being forbidden from meets... the inclusiveness of TTF is what makes the group different from others and for that i will always be happy
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Magrathea
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I'd like to second Islander's second point about the idea being programmed out of you. Whenever I get angry about people queue-jumping (or breaking many other Alton rules, in fact), a friend will just frustratedly say "James, how much difference does it ACTUALLY make?! Seriously! *sigh*", and then I feel like by getting annoyed at it I'm just being too anal about rules, and what difference does one person actually make, etc. etc. Even from non-forum friends who are coaster enthusiasts, I will seldom be helped in stopping a queuejumper, and be made to feel unreasonable if I do.
Then, once I get home, I'll sit and work out exactly how I would have done it and feel really stupid for not.
Then, once I get home, I'll sit and work out exactly how I would have done it and feel really stupid for not.
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John
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It becomes a problem when it's not one or two people but loads of people, especially on low capacity rides. Knightmare was getting around 200/hour on 1 train op, so if even a few people cut in front you're waiting time can be increased quite a bit.
Generally I'll accept 1 person re-joining a group (especially if there's an odd number beforehand, as it'll fill an otherwise empty seat), but if two or more people try to come past then I tend to get annoyed.
Generally I'll accept 1 person re-joining a group (especially if there's an odd number beforehand, as it'll fill an otherwise empty seat), but if two or more people try to come past then I tend to get annoyed.
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NeilHD
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In principle I'm completely against it, but do I stand up to it? Not necessarily.
The other day in the Dragons Falls queue a guy was trying to get past to "get to his family". I let him past, and sure enough his family were only a few people in front of us, and he was then reunited with his wife and 2 young kids who then all got to ride together. BUT, they could have waited for him and then joined together.
But reverse that to a situation last year at Legoland where my son and I entered a queue (the train-ride thing) and 2 kids ran past us as we walked up the cattle pen. I didn't bother stopping them as it was only 2 kids, but as we joined the start of the actual queue, the kids' family came up - all 12 of them - and demanded to be let past to join them. 12 vs me is not good odds although I gave them a piece of my mind and suggested that the kids could have gone back rather than them going forwards. Made no difference though.
At Vampire last week we walked through the entire queueline which was empty and straight into the station (also empty) at which point 2 girls who had been behind us decided that now it was fair to run past us to get to the front. I wasn't having that and they rode after us.
But my all-time favourite reason for why I won't always speak up at jumpers (at least ones who aren't small girls!) is in Thorpe Park (where else!) where we entered the queue for Saw behind some large chav-type. He went to push past everyone else (made no difference to my position as we were behind him anyway) and the guy immediately ahead of him (who we ended up behind) quizzed him on it. The lying scrote said he was going to meet his mum. Further down the queue it so happened that where the queue doubled-back and there he was with about 10 of his mates. The guy he had first pushed past said "So where's your mum then?" to which he charmingly replied "Shut the f**k up or I'll come over that fence and beat the **** out of you." This is both why I hate queue-jumpers and also why I don't like Thorpe all that much...
The other day in the Dragons Falls queue a guy was trying to get past to "get to his family". I let him past, and sure enough his family were only a few people in front of us, and he was then reunited with his wife and 2 young kids who then all got to ride together. BUT, they could have waited for him and then joined together.
But reverse that to a situation last year at Legoland where my son and I entered a queue (the train-ride thing) and 2 kids ran past us as we walked up the cattle pen. I didn't bother stopping them as it was only 2 kids, but as we joined the start of the actual queue, the kids' family came up - all 12 of them - and demanded to be let past to join them. 12 vs me is not good odds although I gave them a piece of my mind and suggested that the kids could have gone back rather than them going forwards. Made no difference though.
At Vampire last week we walked through the entire queueline which was empty and straight into the station (also empty) at which point 2 girls who had been behind us decided that now it was fair to run past us to get to the front. I wasn't having that and they rode after us.
But my all-time favourite reason for why I won't always speak up at jumpers (at least ones who aren't small girls!) is in Thorpe Park (where else!) where we entered the queue for Saw behind some large chav-type. He went to push past everyone else (made no difference to my position as we were behind him anyway) and the guy immediately ahead of him (who we ended up behind) quizzed him on it. The lying scrote said he was going to meet his mum. Further down the queue it so happened that where the queue doubled-back and there he was with about 10 of his mates. The guy he had first pushed past said "So where's your mum then?" to which he charmingly replied "Shut the f**k up or I'll come over that fence and beat the **** out of you." This is both why I hate queue-jumpers and also why I don't like Thorpe all that much...
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ponder
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[quote=""Anthony""]
The other time didn't affect me really as they were already ahead of me in the Thirteen queue but due to the layout I could clearly see them. They weren't just queue jumping but one had a piss in the plant sections. The staff must have seen them on CCTV because when they did eventually get to the station they were sent straight through and not allowed to ride.
[/quote]
I actually think that's a great way for staff to deal with it, rather than ejecting them from the queue. Let the guilty party get within touching distance of the ride and then tell them "sorry, we saw you jump the queue, you're not getting on." It wastes far more of the offender's time, and might actually discourage them from doing it again.
On a side note, I've seen the ride staff on Stealth react to queue jumpers and call security on a number of occasions, possibly due to the nature of the queueline and how the platform is raised above it, giving the staff a birdseye view of what's going on. Even still though, it's good to see.
The other time didn't affect me really as they were already ahead of me in the Thirteen queue but due to the layout I could clearly see them. They weren't just queue jumping but one had a piss in the plant sections. The staff must have seen them on CCTV because when they did eventually get to the station they were sent straight through and not allowed to ride.
[/quote]
I actually think that's a great way for staff to deal with it, rather than ejecting them from the queue. Let the guilty party get within touching distance of the ride and then tell them "sorry, we saw you jump the queue, you're not getting on." It wastes far more of the offender's time, and might actually discourage them from doing it again.
On a side note, I've seen the ride staff on Stealth react to queue jumpers and call security on a number of occasions, possibly due to the nature of the queueline and how the platform is raised above it, giving the staff a birdseye view of what's going on. Even still though, it's good to see.
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evil cod
Yet this topic is all about you saying something online which you didnt say to us on the day?! Surely the exact same thing?
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Mi-Nigle
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I agree with others on here, getting the staff involved is probably the best thing to do. Not only do they know how to handle the situation, but it saves you from getting into an argument when you've gone out for the day to relax.
Queue jumpers should be stopped but it's not worth risking ruining your day for the sake of it.
Queue jumpers should be stopped but it's not worth risking ruining your day for the sake of it.
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DiogoJ42
[quote=""evil cod""]Yet this topic is all about you saying something online which you didnt say to us on the day?! Surely the exact same thing?[/quote]
A semi-fair point, I'll admit. It was one of those things that was slightly irritating at the time, but got more annoying the more I thought about it after the event.
Anyway, what do people think of this?
If the person at the back of the group encounters a jumper, they shout loudly to the rest of TTF "Hey guys! We got a queue jumper here!" Then everyone turns round and stands firm, holding on to the fence on both sides.
I'll bet my left nut that they will back down when faced with a "gang" of people refusing to let them through.
A semi-fair point, I'll admit. It was one of those things that was slightly irritating at the time, but got more annoying the more I thought about it after the event.
Anyway, what do people think of this?
If the person at the back of the group encounters a jumper, they shout loudly to the rest of TTF "Hey guys! We got a queue jumper here!" Then everyone turns round and stands firm, holding on to the fence on both sides.
I'll bet my left nut that they will back down when faced with a "gang" of people refusing to let them through.
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McFlurry
There's a few issues here to be honest. Firstly, there's times when TTF Queue Jump - Everyone's done it, it happens, its a fact of life. Secondly you do not know under any circumstances how that person will react. If, you feel like the world is about to end becuase someone has walked infront of you then so be it. But it doesn't give you ther right to force the group to stand by your OWN merits. What would happen if that person was to attack a member of our group? Yeah they would get the crap kicked out of them by the rest of us however that's not a position anyone should be put it.
There's various consequences involved, not just for you, but for the people you involve i.e the rest of the group. What happens if they meet one of the group later on a decided to get revenge? A bit far fetched I know but the fact is somthing like this COULD happen.
Yeah we're not exactley gonna let a group walk through the middle of us while queueing, but to be honest it's rather hard to get through us in a Queue anyway as we're such a large group. But if it's one person in a small queue it's not worth losing sleep over!
There's various consequences involved, not just for you, but for the people you involve i.e the rest of the group. What happens if they meet one of the group later on a decided to get revenge? A bit far fetched I know but the fact is somthing like this COULD happen.
Yeah we're not exactley gonna let a group walk through the middle of us while queueing, but to be honest it's rather hard to get through us in a Queue anyway as we're such a large group. But if it's one person in a small queue it's not worth losing sleep over!
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Dormiens-Dave
The thing is diogo we stood fast against queue jumpers, many many times, there are just certain situations when its best to let things lie, such as when theres not to many or the aforementioned queueing for a kids ride.
It is something we should strive to do if its safe to do so.
It is something we should strive to do if its safe to do so.
