Attraction Source Forum

[quote=""Titler""][quote=""most-hated-chip""]Well to be honest, I disagree wth the idea of the Six flags system coming to the park. In my opination the Alton Towers disabled acess is all over the place. When I last went to the park, with some kids who are autistic. So we got the wistbands and we headed towards Spinball Wizzer and we went to exit. And then the ride opp came and asked us how many were riding. So the we said "We have 1 carer and 3 disabled." So the ride opp then said "You can only take on 1 carer and 1 disabled on. So you go on now you have to the other two one later." So I then said "I'm not being rude but can't you let us ride all at once." He didn't let us on.

I have had a lot of experience with people with Autisum, About 75% of my mates have it, I know what goes on inside their minds. To be honest I'm autistic myself. I think people should try to understand it. I think this so called "Flash Pass." Would only make the parks disabled quese system worse.[/quote]

The host did exactly what they should in the example you gave. In my opinion Alton Towers do the very best they can as far as disabled guests and helpers are concerned. They are more than willing to help, and are trained to help in more ways than you can imagine, but also they do not let this severely effect the experience of other guests.

Just because the other 2 carers had to wait another 30 seconds is no issue as far as i am concerned, the person was doing there job. There are many occasions where entire families/groups demand to go on the front of rides or all go on together. Which in some cases is A) Not safe for the staff to handle if something does go wrong and B) Against health and safety regulations.

So the understanding does have to work both ways[/quote]

I wasn't tring to slag off the staff in any way, but I was just tring to point out a point. There was only 1 carer the opp asked was to walt half and hour. At the end of the day he was only doing his job. On many ofther ride we had a larger grope and they letted us one. I can't see how letting a grope of disabled would be dangeraus at all.

Forgot to add it is only the runaway mine train where disabled people are allowed on the front

Nemmy and air they have to be on the back row due to evac regs.

Rita you can go 2nd row onwards but only because its easier to evac.

Blivvy you have to sit in the first 2 seats on the fromt row near to the exit.

When the guest services give out wrist bands they will inform people that only 1 carer and disabled depending on the q times. If not busy you can get 4 on but only 1 can be a red band holder.

[quote=""rita's girl""]
Nemmy and air they have to be on the back row due to evac regs.
.[/quote]

what if a disabled person needs one of the big seats?

[quote=""AstroDan""]It may sound selfish, but it is certainly not fair that the front of the Runaway Mine Train is frequently unavailble for regular guests due to Disabled / Priorty pass holders.
This is one ride where little kids (and big kids too) want to ride at the front, because the front is different - and it's always unfair that half the time the front bay or two are left for disabled people, after everyone else may have waited up to 1/2 an hour in a queue on a busier day.

Generally I don't see it as a major problem, but I think the guests should be made to sit in the middle of trains rather than given the more 'sought after' seats.[/quote]

Its a H&S thing again mate. If the ride needs to be evaced then this is logically the best place for a disabled guest to be. Plus in this event the evac team would know exactly where the disabled guest would be seated. Plus its the closest seat to the gate. Thats why

This system can work well, such as the one at Disney but it does also cause a problem as i found out at Walt Disney World with my disabled mother. Because you can only have one pass / time slot at a time you are very limited to what you can do in between. This put the wheelchair guest at a disadvantage because they don't get on half as many rides as if they could just join the queues. Thankfully that system is much better now, but it was something that got overlooked for at least a couple of years.

what if a disabled person needs one of the big seats?

They will only move people who are physically abled to walk to the big seats. Luckily i'm big and my sister is ok walking so we move to the 4th row, but they are within their rights to refuse entry to the ride.

As a.ndy said its a health and safety thing.

Firstly I must congratulate Dave on this Topic.
The Disabled system in this country has its flaws and some very grey areas.
I do think that Disabled people should get preferential riding as apposed to able bodied riders but it needs to be looked at carefully and riders treated according to their needs.
My wife is classed as Disabled but to look at her she looks very healthy and well.
She refuses to use her Disability to gain access to rides as she doesn't want to be treated differently from able bodied riders and thats her choice and decision.
I would like to see Disabled concessions in our parks tightened up but never at the detriment of the Disabled person but the helpers.
I watched at the Pleasure Beach last week one Disabled person and 4 helpers
Peter

I think it is safe to say, this is one of those situations where the parks are never going to get it 100% right because someone will always abuse the system, and some will always find it unfair.

I totally agree that disabled people should be given a certain level of priority. Afterall, not all disabilities are physical and it can often be the mental ones that do the most harm.

There are so many policies or processes the park could adopt to try and make things better and fairer. But will everyone always be happy? No!.

My suggestion would be something like a token policy. Perhaps with your disabled and carer ticket you get a book of vouchers entitling one priority ride on every attraction. If the rider wants to ride more than once, they must join the queue as normal for the second or mulitple times thereafter. In most cases I think this would work, as I would say 90% of the parks visitors are happy riding a ride just once.

This way, I think you get the priority they deserve, but the restriction which stops anyone from abusing the situation.

Obviously, people are going to either agree or disagree something like the above would be the right thing to do.

A slight flaw with that, is not all queues are wheelchair accessible.

I do think changes might be good. Like, having to wait 20 minutes before going back to a particular ride. But not having to wait to go on ANY ride, because that'd lead to a lot of boredom.

PS: I am entitled to a band, but have never used them because I don't feel it's right for me to. (I'm severely visually impaired for those that don't know. Would be interesting to try though)

just wondering where are the big seats on oblivion and nemisis and have the seats got two belts

[quote=""Vicki""]A slight flaw with that, is not all queues are wheelchair accessible.

I do think changes might be good. Like, having to wait 20 minutes before going back to a particular ride. But not having to wait to go on ANY ride, because that'd lead to a lot of boredom.
[/quote]

I think that there should be a 20 minute wait between any rides, if the queue for the ride they're wishing to go on next is over 20 minutes.

I'm pretty sure that anyone can wait 20 minutes entertaining themselves with scenery or watching ripsaw or other rides.

I don't see the problem with the Flash Pass system, if it was implemented at AT. It's not as if they can't do anything at all when they're waiting for their time slot - you could go into the gardens, on rides with no queue (Hex, Ripsaw, Submission rarely get past 2 cycle queues) or just enjoy the scenery and watch the ride.

Or maybe I'm being a cold, heartless bastard. :P

[quote=""alex tyler""]just wondering where are the big seats on oblivion and nemisis and have the seats got two belts[/quote]

nemesis - the 2nd seat on row 4, and third on row 5 (or is it the other way round?)

oblivion - centre seat on some cars...


alll have 2 belts!

at busch gardens in florida coz my mum has done her ankle in she had a electric scooter and in busch gardens they give you go to the ride exit and they will give you a ticket with a time to come back on which is the length of the current que which i think is a fair system

Its Row 4 Seat 3 Caffeine Demon

Technically you could both be right if you're counting from opposite sides of the train.

On a related note, which side should you start counting from? Its all very well saying 4 seat 3, but if people don't know which side to start counting from it doesn't help much.

I have read through this topic with great interest. I will post my opinions on some of the points raised, however, they are MY opinions, not my rules or my way to offend others. I can be pretty brutal, i say what I think, but I only want to understand more, which is why i ask and put forth such opinions.

It is a difficult one as when we are talking about disabled people then it is easy to offend and say the wrong thing. Alton Towers has to be careful in what it says and what proceedures itputs in place.

The Thorpe Park way (and now Six Flags) is a fairer way to impliment queuing for disables guests. It means guests without a disability are not always put out. We must remember though, disabled does not mean wheelchair bound. There are a few disabilities where people cannot queue due to their condition, however Alton Towers cannot treat different disabilities differently (sorry that was badly worded!). Basically, everyone who is disabled HAS to be treated the same. But then if you are blind or deaf - that doesnt stop you queuing now does it? The Thorpe Park idea was discussed at Alton Towers but that is where it was left.

[quote=""Quickey""]What I was suggesting is for disabled guests to be made to waited at the disabled entrance gate for a small period of time, so to make it slightly more fair[/quote]
You'll find this is true with some ride operators. They will take only one person from the disabled, one from the priority and then the rest is filled with normal-queuing guests. Depends which ride it is but it is something that should be pushed around and implimented more.

[quote=""Quickey""]It is sickening that people will pretend to have a disability to use the disabled queue, and six flags obviously have guests that do this, so they have tried to introduce a system to help stop this problem, but it might not be the best way around it.[/quote]
It is sad yes, but people do it. I see it almost daily in my life, somone trying to get something they are not supposed to get.

[quote=""most-hated-chip""]. . . So the we said "We have 1 carer and 3 disabled." So the ride opp then said "You can only take on 1 carer and 1 disabled on. So you go on now you have to the other two one later." So I then said "I'm not being rude but can't you let us ride all at once." He didn't let us on.[/quote]
But that is the policy, it is there for a good reason I have come to understand. Two senarios:
1) So lets say Alton Towers gave out unlimited carer wristbands, say there is one disabled person and 20 carers. Are you saying you would be happy to wait while all 20 carers went on the ride?
2) Lets say then that Alton Towers still gave out the 4 blue carer wristbands to every 1 red wristband. You get a group of people with a disability coming, let's say. . . 20 disabled people and they each had four carers, making 80 carers. Would you be happy to wait while all 100 people went on the ride? It wouldn't be fair on guests who don't have a disability, let alone people with a priority pass.
So, Alton Towers only lets one carer and one disabled person on at any one time to try and keep things fair. Remember, the system is in place to benefit the disabled person, not the carers.

[quote=""rita's girl""]My 6 yr old son is disabled wth ADHD and CANT stand in Q's for hours on end he gets very disturbed in crowded places, but can be controlled 95% of the time.
The other 5% he is agitated and can get physically violent to any one near him. It is not fair for him to have people stare point and talk about him calling him a FREAK amonst other names.[/quote]

Now I by no way mean to be hurtful in this, it is actually something I am interested in as a whole, so I would value your opinion on this. ADHD is a fairly new term. Many of my friends (me included) call it "Naughty Children" because that is what it seems to be, just children being naughty and not doing what they are told. Maybe this is a UK social problem with more and more parents giving birth in their teens, perhaps they are not ready to punish their children, or maybe it is down to the parents themselves, I don't really know, but surely, we can't have invented a new disability for people who just mis-behave?
Now like I said, I do not mean to point the finger and say "well perhaps you didnt smack him enough when he was growing up" because that isn't what I mean at all. Maybe it is the way all children will turn out, with more flashing lights, computers and TV than ever before, perhaps this is what tomorrows children will be like, always active, always disruptive because they always want (perhaps need) some form of entertainment?

[quote=""sickparrot""]. . .so waiting for 20 minutes at the exit would defeat the object of getting a pass in the first place, unless there were seats of course.[/quote]
So perhaps walk to another ride at the other side of the park? This is the obvious solution than just standing and waiting at the exit (of which you wouldnt be allowed anyway), but then it would also mean a lot more walking should you choose to walk to the other side of the park. Maybe it is something Alton Towers shoud take on board, to place more benches to help people rest.

[quote=""PETER MOWBRAY""]My wife is classed as Disabled but to look at her she looks very healthy and well.
She refuses to use her Disability to gain access to rides as she doesn't want to be treated differently from able bodied riders and thats her choice and decision.[/quote]
For this you must commend her. I commend people like this. Having a disability means (pretty much) that you are not as able as other people, you have something that is "not right" so why abuse it? I mean, again, I do not mean to offend anyone, I am not disabled myself, but if I was, then I would want my life to be as "normal" as possible, is that not why (as a nation) we all try and help disabled people lead a "normal" life?

[quote=""haydnjames""]My suggestion would be something like a token policy. Perhaps with your disabled and carer ticket you get a book of vouchers entitling one priority ride on every attraction. If the rider wants to ride more than once, they must join the queue as normal for the second or mulitple times thereafter. In most cases I think this would work, as I would say 90% of the parks visitors are happy riding a ride just once.[/quote]
A very good suggestion. Although what would stop me saving the vouchers I didnt use on that day and bring them along another day (sorry, badly worded again!)? It would take time to date them all, changing colours each day is expensive and having them pre-dated is not an option either. Perhaps something like an Accelerator pass would be more suited as they are dated. Hmm.

But then I don't understand it all anyway! Well done for reading this far! So you get people who cannot queue getting the wristbands, are you telling me in life, they never have to queue? Not even at Tesco or when getting petrol? I apreciate that not all people are grown ups. I fully agree that some provision should be made to aid the disabled people getting around the park a bit easier, but surely the parents/carers should at least try and teach their disabled persons how to queue?

Now I by no way mean to be hurtful in this, it is actually something I am interested in as a whole, so I would value your opinion on this. ADHD is a fairly new term. Many of my friends (me included) call it "Naughty Children" because that is what it seems to be, just children being naughty and not doing what they are told.

Ok Agreed there is a hell of a lot of people saying their children are ADHD affected and they are just plain naughty. My son has a steardy family life with a fair amount of discipline. However it has not stopped him breaking his fathers nose twice and lifting me up off the floor with just his legs. No JOKE IM 20 STONE!!!! He does play computers but is limited to the amount of time spent on them in one day after he has completed his work.

He is a very clever little bo and is generally scared of crowds and can't keep still for more than 10 mins. Since this topic was started it has been hinted that he has (by professionals) ADHD, ASPERGERS, Sensory problems as well as dyspraxia. Now tell me he is just naughty!! (sorry if sounds hard but just oputtin info accross)

Any way disabled or not alton towers can not discriminate against people with serious disabilities and if its proven then they can not disput it. We have letters from medical professionals stating what I have said above therefore he is legible to access the rides this way. We have never taken the mick with using these bands and anyone who does is generally one sick B******!

yes but similarly, people gte aggitated in crowds. I can't stand small spaces and corded people. I stand at the back of gigs etc. But i deal ith it at Alton Towers.

You should, if your child is unable to queue, have the option to 'virtual queue' and thus make it fair. you are told to retrun at say 11.20, 40 minutes later (length of the queue) and admited via the exit. During this time you can venture off and keep your child busy. This system is somehwat fairer on those who have to queue for 40 minutes.

If you are level headed, and don't abuse the system as you say, then you would agree and fully understand this

Thankyou for your nice comments Mr Hyde.
My Wife read them and appreciates them too.


For this you must commend her. I commend people like this. Having a disability means (pretty much) that you are not as able as other people, you have something that is "not right" so why abuse it? I mean, again, I do not mean to offend anyone, I am not disabled myself, but if I was, then I would want my life to be as "normal" as possible, is that not why (as a nation) we all try and help disabled people lead a "normal" life?[/i]

Thanxs again
Peter

Well, I certainly don't think that the current system is perfect, but it's pretty bloody good to be honest.

The biggest case in point though is the number of people using the system. It's perhaps 1 disabled, plus helper, every couple of trains on a busy day. What's that? 40 riders an hour? Is it seriously such a massive problem for Alton to have to implement strict new controls?

I know that on very busy days, most ride ops use the Thorpe system. I don't know if this is an official line or not, but they have certainly told people they have to wait a queue lengths time before returning, which is a perfectly acceptable thing to ask.

The only real way of sorting it out though would be to have cards which are marked with a return time. As mentioned previously, this isn't good if you have to do the whole Rapids queueline to get a card, then return, it's a LOT of effort pushing a wheel chair (and I've pushed a disabled friend in a wheelchair around Alton, and it's NOT easy).

To do it then, there would have to be a member of staff at the exit point permanently placed givi9ng out times, which eats into budget. So we have to look back at the first paragraph I made - "is it worth Alton making the effort?" For the amount of people using (and abusing) the system, it just isn't.

As for the whole ADHD thing... My son (eldest) is boarderline ADHD, Aspergers and dyspraxic. He was under specialists making sure his development was good, and had special needs until he was 9, but he's mostly "grown out" of the issues, as some children often do.

From my experience of a child on the 'good edge' of this though, I can say without a doubt it's not a parenting issue. Minor_Furie would often just lose it. No reason at all, he'd just find himself unable to control what he was doing and kind of get caught up in a loop. We learned some of the triggers, and learned how to avoid them (usually stress over food, or clothes). The problems weren't "naughty boy" throwing a tantrum, but you can tell there is something seriously wrong going on mentally. He'd withdraw and tuck up into a ball, usually under a table or in a corner. It would often start with stammering and shaking. If he was forced (ie you used discipline), then he would either beat himself, pull his hair and eyelids, or he'd fly into a destructive rage. 90% of the time, he was well behaved, obedient and loving. If he was having a bad day though, or you touched on a trigger, then it could end up a real mess (a bean touched his waffle, and you tried to make him eat either would quickly descend into an episode for instance). The only other problem really was that he was impulsive and has never really learned not to just talk, he can't really get his head around social etiquette, no matter what the punishment.

There is a very clear difference (if you know kids) between not doing what they're told, and there being something wrong.

OH MY GOSH!!!!

Thanks Furie, someone understands how i feel and someone knows what we are going through also...... Sorry to hear about you childs problems but if he is anything like mine he can be the most lovable little monster around then be the most horrible too.

yes but similarly, people gte aggitated in crowds. I can't stand small spaces and corded people. I stand at the back of gigs etc. But i deal ith it at Alton Towers.

You should, if your child is unable to queue, have the option to 'virtual queue' and thus make it fair. you are told to retrun at say 11.20, 40 minutes later (length of the queue) and admited via the exit. During this time you can venture off and keep your child busy. This system is somehwat fairer on those who have to queue for 40 minutes.

If you are level headed, and don't abuse the system as you say, then you would agree and fully understand this

I never siad i disagreed I understand people get aggitated but this is on a completley different level. But i will argue this disabled people do not get straight on the rides they do wait. ok its not a huge amount of time but they sometime have to wait for 10 mins or so.

can i just make a point in what my mom said to me about discussing this topic with her. "IF I WAS TO GET THE ALL CLEAR AND NOT BE DISABLED THEN I WOULD GIVE BACK ALL THE PRIORITY I GET AND THE MONEY. JUST SO I CAN HAVE A NORMAL LIFE" do you honestly think people wish to be disabled...... enough im not gonna carry on because im getting peeved and will end up saying things i regret