Why is the whole of X-Sector closed?
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Dormiens-Dave
Its a discussion forum... people want to discuss this, if you don't want to discuss it avoid this topic.
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Wed May 09, 2012 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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garyh
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All due respect Dave but my comment was aimed at you given your previous comments on this page and last. If people want to make jokes or comments about this guy, mental health or not then let them. In particular you said......
"Tom making claims either way on this forum that are unsubstatiated doesn't really help and if this guy was just an idiot who "lost his wallet" then thats fine and he deserves to be arrested but some of the comments aimed at the potential for suicide were disgusting whether this was a suicide bid or not which is where my comment was aimed. Doesn't matter whether this situation was or wasn't due to mental health issues some of the comments have been aimed that way and its wrong.
If members have evidence post it, if not please keep accusations to a minimum."
and....
"But i don;t think that justifies the comments made by some on mental health"
Well if its a discussion forum, let people say what they want!!! I just remarked that some people are taking it way too seriously. If anything, maybe you should avoid this topic as obviously some of the comments have upset you!!!!
Not out to cause an arguement or offence, but just saying it as it is!!
"Tom making claims either way on this forum that are unsubstatiated doesn't really help and if this guy was just an idiot who "lost his wallet" then thats fine and he deserves to be arrested but some of the comments aimed at the potential for suicide were disgusting whether this was a suicide bid or not which is where my comment was aimed. Doesn't matter whether this situation was or wasn't due to mental health issues some of the comments have been aimed that way and its wrong.
If members have evidence post it, if not please keep accusations to a minimum."
and....
"But i don;t think that justifies the comments made by some on mental health"
Well if its a discussion forum, let people say what they want!!! I just remarked that some people are taking it way too seriously. If anything, maybe you should avoid this topic as obviously some of the comments have upset you!!!!
Not out to cause an arguement or offence, but just saying it as it is!!
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James
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With all due respect, there's a fine line between a discussion and posting things that can insult others. In most cases throughout this topic members have posted jokes without adding anything to the discussion. Comments such as "Arrested, eh? good. Now hang the little :censored: " (sorry to pick said members quote) do not add anything to the topic at all. This is not to say jokes are forbidden on the forums, however when sensitive issues are involved it's best to think before you're about to post and more importantly think of how your post will add more to the discussion.
Since this is a sensitive topic if anyone feels the need to post jokes that can insult or upset others then I will kindly ask you stay away from this topic.
Since this is a sensitive topic if anyone feels the need to post jokes that can insult or upset others then I will kindly ask you stay away from this topic.
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garyh
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Can I just ask why is it sensitive topic????? Does anyone know the person? Was anyone injured, hurt, killed? As far as im aware no one knows the person, no one was hurt so I dont see why anyone would get sensitive about it....?
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Tom G
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People should be allowed to express general opinions or forms of humour if they wish. They can expect to be challenged by others arguing, but I don't think people should be prevented from posting controversial VIEWS for the fear of upsetting people.
Only direct personal insults should be moderated in my views, otherwise as moderators surely you'll have your work cut out if they're going to start vetting posts for opinions and general comments that could upset people.
I think if anyone trivialises mental illness, they can expect to be challenged (not least by me), but that should be all that entails - not moderator warnings.
Obviously all that is my view of how a forum should work, but it's off topic and it's obviously up to the team how they wish to approach such things.
Only direct personal insults should be moderated in my views, otherwise as moderators surely you'll have your work cut out if they're going to start vetting posts for opinions and general comments that could upset people.
I think if anyone trivialises mental illness, they can expect to be challenged (not least by me), but that should be all that entails - not moderator warnings.
Obviously all that is my view of how a forum should work, but it's off topic and it's obviously up to the team how they wish to approach such things.
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BigAl
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But is it really necessary to make fun of someone that may have been trying to take their own life? It doesn't exactly stand out to me as being something that would make a good basis for jokes. But maybe that's just me.
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garyh
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To be honest I am asking and making the point because quite often on forums people tend to take the high moral ground, almost as if what has happened has affected them directly, as if they know the person, or if it has affected someone they know directly. The reality is that lets be honest here, and please, not wanting to sound harsh, but if this joe bloggs had killed themselves in Alton, as tragic as it would be, none of us are going to be losing any sleep over it.
Im not saying people should make jokes about the dead, and if this person had died, or indeed had killed others, then I would be the first to comment against someone who had made a joke out of it, but nothing happened, Alton handled it, no one was hurt, no one knows the person concerned, its done, dusted, sorted, so I dont see why it would be considered to be a sensitive issue.
I actually work for a Mental Health NHS Trust, and speaking to people with Mental Health issues, you'll actually find that in a lot of cases, those with issues will actually be the ones making the jokes about it. And they have a valid point that if you cant laugh about things in life, then whats the point. There are far more serious things to worry about.
I appreciate forums can in some cases be held to account legally if comments are made, for example liabel comments against someone, but in this case, its a non event, nothing happened, so lets lighten up here. Last thing i'd want is an argument, or to fall out with anyone, but I just feel sometimes people get waaaaay too serious over things!
Edit : BigAl - I dont believe anyone is making fun of someone who may have been trying to take their own life, calling someone a nut case for example is just a way of referring to someone who would climb into the Oblivion hole. I can think of alternative phrases to use, but not on the forum!
Im not saying people should make jokes about the dead, and if this person had died, or indeed had killed others, then I would be the first to comment against someone who had made a joke out of it, but nothing happened, Alton handled it, no one was hurt, no one knows the person concerned, its done, dusted, sorted, so I dont see why it would be considered to be a sensitive issue.
I actually work for a Mental Health NHS Trust, and speaking to people with Mental Health issues, you'll actually find that in a lot of cases, those with issues will actually be the ones making the jokes about it. And they have a valid point that if you cant laugh about things in life, then whats the point. There are far more serious things to worry about.
I appreciate forums can in some cases be held to account legally if comments are made, for example liabel comments against someone, but in this case, its a non event, nothing happened, so lets lighten up here. Last thing i'd want is an argument, or to fall out with anyone, but I just feel sometimes people get waaaaay too serious over things!
Edit : BigAl - I dont believe anyone is making fun of someone who may have been trying to take their own life, calling someone a nut case for example is just a way of referring to someone who would climb into the Oblivion hole. I can think of alternative phrases to use, but not on the forum!
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BigAl
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But in this context, describing someone that may have been trying to commit suicide as a "nut case" is a little bit insensitive.garyh wrote: Edit : BigAl - I dont believe anyone is making fun of someone who may have been trying to take their own life, calling someone a nut case for example is just a way of referring to someone who would climb into the Oblivion hole. I can think of alternative phrases to use, but not on the forum!
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Dormiens-Dave
I can express an opinion without it being a moderation action. I stated i felt that people who mock mental health issues are being insensitive. That was my opinion, as you may notice i haven't deleted or modified any of those comments and only a relatively few very extreme posts that went over the top have been deleted and none by me.garyh wrote: All due respect Dave but my comment was aimed at you given your previous comments on this page and last. If people want to make jokes or comments about this guy, mental health or not then let them. In particular you said......
"Tom making claims either way on this forum that are unsubstatiated doesn't really help and if this guy was just an idiot who "lost his wallet" then thats fine and he deserves to be arrested but some of the comments aimed at the potential for suicide were disgusting whether this was a suicide bid or not which is where my comment was aimed. Doesn't matter whether this situation was or wasn't due to mental health issues some of the comments have been aimed that way and its wrong.
If members have evidence post it, if not please keep accusations to a minimum."
and....
"But i don;t think that justifies the comments made by some on mental health"
Well if its a discussion forum, let people say what they want!!! I just remarked that some people are taking it way too seriously. If anything, maybe you should avoid this topic as obviously some of the comments have upset you!!!!
Not out to cause an arguement or offence, but just saying it as it is!!
Your comment Gary was basically telling people to stop discussing something because you felt it was too serious. You accuse me of stifling speech yet i'm not the one who has told a whole swath of opinion to "lighten up". If as a team member i'm not allowed to defend MY opinion on mental health issues then quite frankly why would i bother at all with this forum. My opinions are formed from my own experience in the NHS and i am happy to joke as much as the next person.. but a few comments where not aimed at being funny they where being cruel and oddly enough this further argument isn't even involving those people.
I don't avoid the topics that may have comments that upset me but i avoid the ones where i don't feel inclined to contribute constructively to the discussion.
If you have any further questions or problems feel free to PM me or contact Craig or Kaycee (Forum Admin)
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Wed May 09, 2012 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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James
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When I say sensitive topic I'm referring to the topic of mental health and suicide (neither of which have been connected to this incident, just assumed by members). They are both sensitive issues mainly due to the fact, much like death, some people can be easily insulted or upset by heartless jokes.garyh wrote: Can I just ask why is it sensitive topic????? Does anyone know the person? Was anyone injured, hurt, killed? As far as im aware no one knows the person, no one was hurt so I dont see why anyone would get sensitive about it....?
Sure, no one has been hurt and no one (as far as we are aware) on here knows the person. However if this person has attempted to commit suicide, if they have mental health issues, there is no need for pointless jokes to be made. People have posted jokes that add nothing to the topic whatsoever.
Several posts have been reported by other members in this topic, with comments of how some posts could upset others. We (the team) are here to ensure the forums are enjoyable for all members, considering there have been some issues arising with regards to some posts there has had to be some action taken within this topic.
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DiogoJ42
Interesting that my comment (which was my genuine opinion on the matter, and not a joke as some seem to think) was deleted, yet it's OK to quote it. It can't have been that offensive then, can it? :-k
We have heard no evidence at this time that the guy was "mentally ill". All we know is that he did something stupid. Doing stupid things does not make someone "mentally ill"... it makes them stupid. Even if he was, does that mean he is exempt from all blame? Last time I heard, the law (and park T&Cs) applied to all people, regardles of their mental condition.
We have heard no evidence at this time that the guy was "mentally ill". All we know is that he did something stupid. Doing stupid things does not make someone "mentally ill"... it makes them stupid. Even if he was, does that mean he is exempt from all blame? Last time I heard, the law (and park T&Cs) applied to all people, regardles of their mental condition.
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Dormiens-Dave
It doesn't matter whether the guy is mentally ill or not "some people" comments aimed AT mental health issues have been horrific. The mental state of the man in question doesn't matter its the comments about Mental health that bothers me.
I wasn't involved in deleting your post and as i was at work i don't know its content but If you think a post was deleted unfairly you need to contact Craig or Kaycee.
Can we please get back on topic now and continue this in PM if needed
I wasn't involved in deleting your post and as i was at work i don't know its content but If you think a post was deleted unfairly you need to contact Craig or Kaycee.
Can we please get back on topic now and continue this in PM if needed
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Wed May 09, 2012 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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garyh
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Dave - James
Like I said, im not out to be in an arguement, and respect the job you have of moderating the forums, which, as James points out, can be difficult given that its sometimes a fine line on what is and what isnt acceptable. Personally, I think that as no one here knows the person, or has been affected by it, then I dont see anything wrong with the odd "joke comment" especially given that climbing into the Oblivion hole really is a crazy thing to do. Thats my own opinion, yes, others may be "offended" by some comments, and thats where the fine line comes in - generally the moderating on Towers Times is fair compared to some other forums, which shall remain nameles, but I just was curious about what made this a sensitive issue, and also wanted to make the point that "sometimes", some people can get over zealous for no need, as if to take the moral high ground as it would be seen as the thing to do.
You've both given your comments on the matter, i've nothing further to add on it, I respect both sides of the discussion, but i'll remain of the opinion in this particular case that I see nothing wrong with the comments which have been made in this particular thread - but hey, again, thats my own personal opinion
Like I said, im not out to be in an arguement, and respect the job you have of moderating the forums, which, as James points out, can be difficult given that its sometimes a fine line on what is and what isnt acceptable. Personally, I think that as no one here knows the person, or has been affected by it, then I dont see anything wrong with the odd "joke comment" especially given that climbing into the Oblivion hole really is a crazy thing to do. Thats my own opinion, yes, others may be "offended" by some comments, and thats where the fine line comes in - generally the moderating on Towers Times is fair compared to some other forums, which shall remain nameles, but I just was curious about what made this a sensitive issue, and also wanted to make the point that "sometimes", some people can get over zealous for no need, as if to take the moral high ground as it would be seen as the thing to do.
You've both given your comments on the matter, i've nothing further to add on it, I respect both sides of the discussion, but i'll remain of the opinion in this particular case that I see nothing wrong with the comments which have been made in this particular thread - but hey, again, thats my own personal opinion
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pluk
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Assuming the article a couple of pages back is correct, which I have no reason to disbelieve especially as it includes direct quotes from the police force, then this is not a mental health incident.
If police turn up and it appears the person is suffering some sort of mental health problem they would not be arrested, they would instead be detained by police under section 136 of the mental health act and taken to hospital for assessment. The police press statement wouldn't then state he had been arrested if he hadn't.
There's an outside chance he would be arrested but subsequently assessed by a medic in custody who would declare him unfit to be detained due to mental health and then sectioned from there. But if that had happened I'm pretty sure the press statement would say so, there's nothing to hid and it would have happened pretty much instantly.
Also, after that press statement, I wouldn't be surprised if we never hear anything else about it (in terms of the 'suspect' and their state of mind or criminal disposal). So my money is this being an idiot doing something idiotic rather than a medical issue.
If police turn up and it appears the person is suffering some sort of mental health problem they would not be arrested, they would instead be detained by police under section 136 of the mental health act and taken to hospital for assessment. The police press statement wouldn't then state he had been arrested if he hadn't.
There's an outside chance he would be arrested but subsequently assessed by a medic in custody who would declare him unfit to be detained due to mental health and then sectioned from there. But if that had happened I'm pretty sure the press statement would say so, there's nothing to hid and it would have happened pretty much instantly.
Also, after that press statement, I wouldn't be surprised if we never hear anything else about it (in terms of the 'suspect' and their state of mind or criminal disposal). So my money is this being an idiot doing something idiotic rather than a medical issue.
Total Unique Ridecount
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DiogoJ42
Much as I would love to see this photo, I won't ask to see it, or that you post it, incase that is deemed "insensitive".Tom G wrote: Returning this to topic, I've been sent a picture that shows the man climbed over the fence guarding the ENTRY hole, not the exit one. He was on the ledge just behind the track.
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BigAl
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Yikes! 
How did he manage to get there without causing himself an injury? Either way, he's lucky not to have been struck by a ride car.
How did he manage to get there without causing himself an injury? Either way, he's lucky not to have been struck by a ride car.-
Sam
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And - shock horror - as the photo shows he wasn't even in remote danger of being accidentally hit by a shuttle. The only way he could have been hit by a shuttle is if he jumped down onto the track.
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Jordan
I'm not sure - as this earlier tweet by the photographer of the above picture suggests, the man entered the tunnel by the pond - presumably he made it through to the hole?Sam wrote: And - shock horror - as the photo shows he wasn't even in remote danger of being accidentally hit by a shuttle. The only way he could have been hit by a shuttle is if he jumped down onto the track.