2012: Nemesis - What Lies Beneath - Part 1

AstroDan · Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:45 pm

[quote=""Big Dave""]Heard this ride may have a worlds first twist to it, but wont say much more in case I am prove wrong :P[/quote]

Well, my original belief that this was to be an ABC Vertical Dark Ride, would make this a world first prototype from ABC Rides.

longy0151 · Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:57 pm

What about the world's first flipping vertical dark ride?
It would be like the rolls on Ripsaw, and when you drop, you could fit two or three flips into it.
Would this be like Ripsaw too much though?

Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:21 pm

The problem is, the words 'World's First' is used so loosely these days that it almost is a last ditch attempt at making a rather mediocre ride sound good. A well designed attraction should not need to be a worlds first to make it stand out.

Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:37 pm

I prefer thrill and theming to knowing that what I'm riding was the first. If it's a sensible world first that truly enhances the ride then I'm all for it but if it's silly and gimmicky and doesn't really achieve much other than a hefty bill for the park then I'd rather they didn't bother. There isn't anything wrong making new concepts but some ideas should remain ideas and not progress any further.

Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:55 pm

Again, I'd like to stress that this seems likely to have a multi-million pound budget, and is unlikely to be the simple 'tower in a shed' that a lot of people seem to be expecting.

Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:23 am

[quote=""Tom G""]Again, I'd like to stress that this seems likely to have a multi-million pound budget, and is unlikely to be the simple 'tower in a shed' that a lot of people seem to be expecting.[/quote] I expect it will have a multi-million pound budget but how many Dark Rides don't? Dark Rides are expensive. Duel cost £3 million, Hex cost £4 million, Charlie cost £8 million (according to TT) All of these rides can be described as multi-million pond rides. I'd expect this ride to be somewhere within that price range which means we could end up with the next Hex but just as easily another Charlie.

The fact is that Alton seems to have chosen a very basic ride mechanise. While it can be argued that adding several million pounds worth of scenery on top could make it a good experience those who are looking for a good ride already have a reason to be pessimistic. If you're someone who doesn’t like Extremis then you already know this ride will probably disappoint you. Personally as I made very clear in my Mystery Castle review (Shamless Plug) I think this ride is having to rely too much on being really well themed.

Add to that they’ve chosen a ride system very similar to the last ride to be installed and you have to question why they would choose to commit to such a project, especially with the Black Hole still vacant. Is it because they have a really good idea and couldn’t postpone the ride any longer? Or more likely because ABC is cheap and Blackpool have just installed a lift and drop tower combo so it saves even more money to build the same thing. I hope this is not their reasoning but I can’t see any other reason why they would have thought another drop tower was a good Th13teen follow up.

Big Dave · Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:02 am

Your probably right that they have had some kind of deal with them to buy so many of their products for either a set fee or at some sort of discount.

I think this will be a good ride, but I do not understand that yet again they are going with this intimidation and drop idea. Th13teen does this, Frog Hopper does this for the kids and for the Adrenaline junkies you have Oblivion. Do we really need another drop rides like this on the park?

Ok anything is better than what was there originally, but to be honest, I would have been just has happy to see something like Dynamo or some other flat ride there.

What will epically make this ride is the attention to detail. The ride must be themed to within an inch of its life. NOTHING can be left unthemed. The ride has to have a perfect show sequence, something Th13teen actually does really well. The ride must be linked very closely to the Forbidden Valley. It has to seamlessly fit into that area.

AstroDan · Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:12 am

I would imagine that the ride chamber itself will be more theme and special effects based than mystery castle.

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Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:41 am

[quote=""AstroDan""]I would imagine that the ride chamber itself will be more theme and special effects based than mystery castle.[/quote]

Should be, since Castle's drop section doesn't really have much bar the lightning on the roof and the epic soundtrack and voice...

God I need to go back there...

Still not sure why people are complaining about this though... And it's obvious that the drop won't be the major part of the ride, it will be an addition to the rest of the experience... Though I will say that the post-show lifts will have to be OUTSTANDING, as after the two Madhouses in Italy having rather bland lifts have made me wary of this idea, as they didn't continue the story at all...

And each ride that has a dropping section will be completely different from the other... Score... As if this is like Extremis then it'll be better than Thirteen's drop for a start... It also shouldn't be a missed opportunity compared to Thirteen either...

We want Towers to have more unique rides, yet would be happy with Dynamo just returning? Mixed signals I feel...

DDF14 · Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:06 pm

We want Towers to have more unique rides, yet would be happy with Dynamo just returning? Mixed signals I feel...

Could not agree more with this.

To be fair I am really not so bothered about the ride mech itself whatever it may be. I just really hope they have used all the original Nemesis backstory material (i.e. The comic, Original video story,Tom Baker narration) to give them the correct path and idea of what this ride should be about. Looking at the video footage the large stone pillars were the place "where people went to give there souls". Would just be nice if they showed some respect not just to the story and the enthusiasts but to John and his imagination for the concept. There is plenty to work with regarding theme.

For all the attention Alton gets over the coasters I really think they need to start showing us they can do more with flat rides, Hex being the obvious exception. Lets just hope we have another strong story and immersive experience that shows the story some respect than worry too much about how lame or unique the ride experience might be.

DiogoJ42 · Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:10 pm

This ride will have nothing to do with Nemesis. If it does, I'll eat my pirate hat :yohoho:

DDF14 · Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:14 pm

You know it really would not suprise me much if you were right dude. But im trying to stay positive among all the sceptics.

Plus now i feel bad i would not want to see such a fine hat ruined and eaten.. Yarrr harrr matey !!

Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:03 pm

[quote=""DDF14""]Tom Baker narration[/quote] Could happen

They used his voice for the Greatest Ride competition so who knows. It doesn’t have to have a Nemesis related story for them to use his voice.

DDF14 · Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:18 pm

I did not know that Nightfall, I work in sports television and spend most of the year away with work..
I got back into the forum the other day as I went to Thorpe for the first time since 2007 and I am planning a trip to Alton around the 25th oct. I missed the competition until final day when I voted Nemesis.

Would be great to have Tom on board the project, but I am not saying the ride HAS to feature things from Nemesis or even be linked to it in a strong way. I just hope it fits with the area within the storyline.. Just a hope..

It just all seems so obvious when there is such a vast amount of media and material out there to research..

I wonder what the construction schedule is? Will it be a quick install to give them time to work out bugs in the system.

Big Dave · Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:24 pm

Think what you are missing from my post is, that I dont understand why Merlin are putting this ride at Alton Towers, when their last ride is also drop based. Its a great concept and looks great, but Alton Towers does not need another drop based ride. The only way I can see this being a positive addition to the park is if it has outstanding theming and fits seamlessly into the area. Otherwise, I would have been equally as happy to have any other flat ride there as they will add an additional element to the park that is not already there.

I know people are not going to get the key points of that, despite me saying it again, but oh well.

Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:11 pm

^I addressed your point...

The difference between this and Thirteen will be more than enough for the average guest... Oblivion is a different kettle of fish, and Frog Hopper is designed for children, hence cannot truly be compared directly...

Does it need another ride with a drop based portion? Maybe...

Does it need a well themed experience attraction that has a drop as a finale to a much bigger story/theme? Yes...

Any other flat ride may just be like Submission, Blade or Ripsaw though... And whilst I feel Towers needs more quality flat rides, we're getting one... With better theorectical throughput than the current ones...

Big Dave · Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:18 pm

In my eyes, this ride simply doesnt do enough to warrant its place on park. Its essentially a small drop tower. Yes we did ask for a drop tower of some sort to go on the park, but we all knew that to put a proper drop tower in would either mean breaking height restrictions or digging deep underground and therefore realised it just wasnt possible.

You could have put something completely different on this plot of land that added another experience that the park currently doesnt have. There are sooo many different flat rides out there to choose from and all of them probably cost a fraction of the price of this ride will.

If they want to build this ride, why not do it at Thorpe or Chessington. The height restriction is such that smaller kids can ride and for Chessington, this would be classed as a major investment, whereas at Towers, this is just a plug gap ride.

Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:23 pm

A Huss Flic Flac, KMG Move It or a Gerstlauer Suspended Polyp would have been nicer! :/

Blaze · Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:27 pm

[quote=""Big Dave""]In my eyes, this ride simply doesnt do enough to warrant its place on park. Its essentially a small drop tower. Yes we did ask for a drop tower of some sort to go on the park, but we all knew that to put a proper drop tower in would either mean breaking height restrictions or digging deep underground and therefore realised it just wasnt possible.[/quote]
You say that as if you've been on it and know everything about what happens. Who says it doesn't deserve to be on park? Let's wait until March, or at least until we find out more, before we judge it. The building is around 6 meters tall, and they're supposedly digging six meters, so they'll have around 10-12 meters to play with, and Thirteen does fine with it's little drop. This is going to be about more than a drop, so why be so hasty with your judgement?

[quote=""Big Dave""]In my eyes, this ride simply doesnt do enough to warrant its place on park. Its essentially a small drop tower. Yes we did ask for a drop tower of some sort to go on the park, but we all knew that to put a proper drop tower in would either mean breaking height restrictions or digging deep underground and therefore realised it just wasnt possible.[/quote]
It's a medium attraction, about £5m. They could have put a run-of-the-mill flat there, but they're building a dark ride. People moaned that not enough happens in Thirteen's indoor section, so Alton build a dropping ride crossed with a proper dark ride, and people still complain! They must be wondering how they can win with this sort of attitude.

[quote=""Big Dave""]If they want to build this ride, why not do it at Thorpe or Chessington. The height restriction is such that smaller kids can ride and for Chessington, this would be classed as a major investment, whereas at Towers, this is just a plug gap ride.[/quote]
So Alton are getting a new ride. A new dark ride, which we've begged for for years, after a year of next to no investment, and yet you're asking them to send it to Thorpe or Chessington. What?!

Big Dave · Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:33 pm

Im not saying we dont need something at the park or that we dont need a dark ride. There is just better dark rides out there than this! In addition, surely the fact Th13teens crypt is not what we wanted and doesnt have the theming we wanted, doesnt warrant building a new ride.