Hi - this is Chris Emmins of KwikChex. We are engaged by LBE to independently monitor their standards and protect their reputation. This involves such activities as mystery shopper visits and unannounced customer satisfaction exit surveys.
Our remit also covers monitoring promotional activities to help ensure that LBE staff stick to agreed conditions - and that Merlin also compete fairly. We do this by 'covert' monitoring and by accessing CCTV footage. Thus far we have observed no unfair practices by either attractions promotional staff - only good natured banter between them. (The complaint to the OFT concerns what LBE regard as restrictive trading actions by Merlin, not activities by local staff)
LBE employment contracts expressly forbid poaching London Dungeon customers in terms of approaching people in the LD queue or in any way aggressively trying to switch LD customers to the LBE. The rules are very clear on this.
LBE are determined to trade absolutely fairly and on their own merits. As some people on here have posted regarding what would be breaches of contract, I would be very grateful if anyone that claims to have experienced unacceptable practices would contact me as a matter of urgency, so we can establish the facts and check CCTV footage where available to determine whether disciplinary action is necessary.
You can PM me or contact me through the KwikChex website.
Many thanks,
Chris Emmins
The London Dungeon
-
saxineno
- New Member
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 pm
PM'd you the details from our last visit 
Now that you're here though, would you mind going into more detail about what is acceptable promotional activity? We have a group of people from the LBE in scary costumes trying to sell something using normal Londonish sales techniques. Are there guidelines set up to ensure that they don't accidentally rattle people too much?
Also, do other TTFers know any other reason to be on that particular street in London if they didn't already have either London Dungeon or LBE in mind?
David
Now that you're here though, would you mind going into more detail about what is acceptable promotional activity? We have a group of people from the LBE in scary costumes trying to sell something using normal Londonish sales techniques. Are there guidelines set up to ensure that they don't accidentally rattle people too much?
Also, do other TTFers know any other reason to be on that particular street in London if they didn't already have either London Dungeon or LBE in mind?
David
-
ChrisEmmins
- New Member
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:55 am
Thanks saxineno - have your PM and will investigate.
The LBE employment contracts defines areas of operation for promotional staff and also provides reference to 'scripts' and behaviour. Both attractions can of course promote around the prime area - London Bridge Station. LBE staff are instructed very clearly not to approach the LD queue. In fact as the queue on the station side is, as understand for pre-booked LD customers it would seem pointless anyway. Occasionally, the LD queue does stretch back a long way but as I said, there are still rules and no practical point in approaching.
The rules laid down also cover aspects such as persistence - i., not becoming a nuisance and are specific about disengaging when people state that they are LD customers.
KwikChex hopes to be able to contribute by ensuring that consumers enjoy their visit to the area - and that both attractions work hard to ensure this happens and that competition is robust, but fair and transparent - just as the situation would be in say, Orlando where attractions of a similar nature but with distinct differences (Disney and Universal for example) compete in such a way that consumers benefit.
Thanks for taking the time to reply - and (for all contributors), please do get in touch if you have any concerns.
All the best,
Chris Emmins
The LBE employment contracts defines areas of operation for promotional staff and also provides reference to 'scripts' and behaviour. Both attractions can of course promote around the prime area - London Bridge Station. LBE staff are instructed very clearly not to approach the LD queue. In fact as the queue on the station side is, as understand for pre-booked LD customers it would seem pointless anyway. Occasionally, the LD queue does stretch back a long way but as I said, there are still rules and no practical point in approaching.
The rules laid down also cover aspects such as persistence - i., not becoming a nuisance and are specific about disengaging when people state that they are LD customers.
KwikChex hopes to be able to contribute by ensuring that consumers enjoy their visit to the area - and that both attractions work hard to ensure this happens and that competition is robust, but fair and transparent - just as the situation would be in say, Orlando where attractions of a similar nature but with distinct differences (Disney and Universal for example) compete in such a way that consumers benefit.
Thanks for taking the time to reply - and (for all contributors), please do get in touch if you have any concerns.
All the best,
Chris Emmins
-
The London Dungeon
- New Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:38 am
Hi all, thanks for takign the time to share your thoughts on The London Dungeon/London Bridge Experience issue as has been reported in the pres, here's an update on the situation:
We did indeed sue London Bridge Experience and obtained both a substantial compensation payment from them and extensive undertakings designed to control their most objectionable tactics. They breached these undertakings almost immediately and have continued to do so since. We naturally take any interference with, deception of or harassment of our customers and potential customers very seriously indeed. If anyone has encountered any activities by London Bridge Experience staff that they felt amounted to attempts to poach London Dungeon customers or to discourage anyone from visiting the London Dungeon we would very much like to hear about this (please PM us).
This is not a matter of two competitor attractions engaging in fair competition for customers. The London Bridge Experience has deliberately and persistently sought to poach London Dungeon customers through misleading, aggressive and unlawful behaviour. Our customers do not want and should not have to put up with the unwelcome harassment from London Bridge Experience staff and we are determined to use every means in our power to put a stop to it.
If anyone has any question either PM us or email us at london.dungeon@merlinentertainments.biz
We did indeed sue London Bridge Experience and obtained both a substantial compensation payment from them and extensive undertakings designed to control their most objectionable tactics. They breached these undertakings almost immediately and have continued to do so since. We naturally take any interference with, deception of or harassment of our customers and potential customers very seriously indeed. If anyone has encountered any activities by London Bridge Experience staff that they felt amounted to attempts to poach London Dungeon customers or to discourage anyone from visiting the London Dungeon we would very much like to hear about this (please PM us).
This is not a matter of two competitor attractions engaging in fair competition for customers. The London Bridge Experience has deliberately and persistently sought to poach London Dungeon customers through misleading, aggressive and unlawful behaviour. Our customers do not want and should not have to put up with the unwelcome harassment from London Bridge Experience staff and we are determined to use every means in our power to put a stop to it.
If anyone has any question either PM us or email us at london.dungeon@merlinentertainments.biz
The London Dungeon
28/34 Tooley Street | London | SE1 2SZ |Tel]http://www.thedungeons.com[/url]
Join us on Facebook! http://www.facebook.com/londondungeonofficial
28/34 Tooley Street | London | SE1 2SZ |Tel]http://www.thedungeons.com[/url]
Join us on Facebook! http://www.facebook.com/londondungeonofficial
-
Rowe
Well... er... this is a fairly surreal experience to have a visitor attraction signed up on TTF...
-
Vanessa Feltz
- Member
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:43 pm
- Location: Thorpe Park
- Contact:
We're famous! The London Dungeon even knows us!
On topic, if that is the case that London Bridge have been using unlawful actions to steal business from yourselves then I completely support you with what you've had to do and will be doing in the future, Personally I've never been to the London Bridge Experience, nor did I ever intend to, my priorities indeed lie with Merlin.
On topic, if that is the case that London Bridge have been using unlawful actions to steal business from yourselves then I completely support you with what you've had to do and will be doing in the future, Personally I've never been to the London Bridge Experience, nor did I ever intend to, my priorities indeed lie with Merlin.
Previously Site Team!
"Thinks he knows it all"
"Thinks he knows it all"
-
saxineno
- New Member
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 pm
Soooo funny, in a cringeworthy, Jeremy Kyle, "Why on Earth would you choose this arena for your argument?" kind of way!
I reckon that LBE seems scarier than London Dungeon particularly with the award winning tombs, but London Dungeon will be more attractive to older family audiences. To be honest I don't go to London Dungeon to be scared, I go because I find it amazingly entertaining and because the acting is brilliant.
Has anybody actually been to LBE and can say how it compares? Maybe we can get these two to play nicely together!
I reckon that LBE seems scarier than London Dungeon particularly with the award winning tombs, but London Dungeon will be more attractive to older family audiences. To be honest I don't go to London Dungeon to be scared, I go because I find it amazingly entertaining and because the acting is brilliant.
Has anybody actually been to LBE and can say how it compares? Maybe we can get these two to play nicely together!
-
oldgitBEN
its nice to see honest open answers from the attractions, well done them - I have alot of respect for them coming on here to set the record straight.
-
[Archive]
London Bridge Experience felt like a rip off of the London Dungeon's "style" from start to finish (excluding the Tombs which were actually rather good). It was funny at the time how similar but poor the Bridge Experience was.
It would be better if they actually had something worthwhile to create an attraction out of, really, as all they had to talk about was one historical bridge. The talks were even quite nerdy at times; it was not engaging at all. Nothing much memorable seemed to happen either. The effects that they did have were unconvincing or predictable, other than that it was just a series of dark, themed rooms with a jokey actor, some alright but some awful.
If I remember correctly, the last scene was just a 'talking painting' effect (watching a man on a screen basically for ages), and after that finished a host just walked into the room and asked us if we had enjoyed our time, no finale at all.
We then got the option to skip the Tombs. Which brings me to another point...
If, like I did on my first visit, a visitor decides to skip the Tombs, then they get a very bad deal! The two attractions really should have separate tickets. I am glad that I did visit a second time so I got through the tombs, after conquering my fear of scare mazes (on Terror of the Towers in 2009 in fact!). The maze was pretty intense, in a fun sort of way! I hope they focus on this half of the package more and improve the other drastically in future, without making visitors pay for both.
Another thing that is worth mentioning is that, on my second visit, they dressed up the last scene slightly with Christmas decorations and held "Meet Father Christmas" section in there. WHAT?
He was asking us what presents we would like for Christmas and everything. 
_____________________________
They did the guest poaching thing on my last visit to the Dungeons as well. There was practically a team of dressed up actors and actresses hanging around the Dungeons queueline, who at first appeared to be from the Dungeons. Next thing you know they are coming up to you saying "Our's scarier! How about you come to us?". #-o They were all smoking next to us as well, giving a bad impression to the tourists who mistook them for Dungeons staff... But I will not go into any more detail as Merlin have told us to PM them.
It would be better if they actually had something worthwhile to create an attraction out of, really, as all they had to talk about was one historical bridge. The talks were even quite nerdy at times; it was not engaging at all. Nothing much memorable seemed to happen either. The effects that they did have were unconvincing or predictable, other than that it was just a series of dark, themed rooms with a jokey actor, some alright but some awful.
If I remember correctly, the last scene was just a 'talking painting' effect (watching a man on a screen basically for ages), and after that finished a host just walked into the room and asked us if we had enjoyed our time, no finale at all.
We then got the option to skip the Tombs. Which brings me to another point...If, like I did on my first visit, a visitor decides to skip the Tombs, then they get a very bad deal! The two attractions really should have separate tickets. I am glad that I did visit a second time so I got through the tombs, after conquering my fear of scare mazes (on Terror of the Towers in 2009 in fact!). The maze was pretty intense, in a fun sort of way! I hope they focus on this half of the package more and improve the other drastically in future, without making visitors pay for both.
Another thing that is worth mentioning is that, on my second visit, they dressed up the last scene slightly with Christmas decorations and held "Meet Father Christmas" section in there. WHAT?
He was asking us what presents we would like for Christmas and everything. _____________________________
They did the guest poaching thing on my last visit to the Dungeons as well. There was practically a team of dressed up actors and actresses hanging around the Dungeons queueline, who at first appeared to be from the Dungeons. Next thing you know they are coming up to you saying "Our's scarier! How about you come to us?". #-o They were all smoking next to us as well, giving a bad impression to the tourists who mistook them for Dungeons staff... But I will not go into any more detail as Merlin have told us to PM them.
-
ChrisEmmins
- New Member
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:55 am
Hi - firstly - I don't want to seem to be hijacking your forum for the purpose of arguing out a commercial dispute - but the feedback that you are able to give is valuable in terms of maintaining and enhancing standards at the LBE - and to assist KwikChex with ensuring that fair competition does take place and that the agreements / undertakings made between the attractions are adhered to.
Firstly many thanks to those that PM'd me - some of it referred back to some time ago, but it remains useful feedback that is being examined.
Also, thanks to electricBill for your comments. Focusing on improving the experience and creating differentiation, particularly around the London Tombs 'scare' aspect (and its history of discovered, grisly human remains / Most Haunted TV etc.) is a key factor going forward.
Finally, just to clarify again: the initial dispute, although still contested on some aspects was settled out of court and undertakings provided regarding ongoing promotional activities. The disciplinary code for LBE employees was a part of this agreement and LBE management are vigorous in their enforcement of this. The engagement of KwikChex is intended to add another resource to this process.
I don't intend to take up space on your forum again unless requested to do so - but please do PM me if you have questions or any concerns that you would like to raise
Thanks once again for taking the ttime to give your feedback and for allowing me to use your forum.
All the best,
Chris Emmins
Firstly many thanks to those that PM'd me - some of it referred back to some time ago, but it remains useful feedback that is being examined.
Also, thanks to electricBill for your comments. Focusing on improving the experience and creating differentiation, particularly around the London Tombs 'scare' aspect (and its history of discovered, grisly human remains / Most Haunted TV etc.) is a key factor going forward.
Finally, just to clarify again: the initial dispute, although still contested on some aspects was settled out of court and undertakings provided regarding ongoing promotional activities. The disciplinary code for LBE employees was a part of this agreement and LBE management are vigorous in their enforcement of this. The engagement of KwikChex is intended to add another resource to this process.
I don't intend to take up space on your forum again unless requested to do so - but please do PM me if you have questions or any concerns that you would like to raise
Thanks once again for taking the ttime to give your feedback and for allowing me to use your forum.
All the best,
Chris Emmins
-
TheMan
- Member
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:11 pm
I have no interest in either attraction (no offence, just not my thing).
This must however, rate as one of the most surreal threads I've ever read on TTF!
I wonder if AT will ever be brave enough, to invite us to "PM" them our thoughts? :mrgreen:
Fair play though, many us say that the attractions should pay more attention to us "enthusiasts" - and here are two companies, doing exactly that... whatever the motivations are, that has to be applauded.
TheMan
This must however, rate as one of the most surreal threads I've ever read on TTF!
I wonder if AT will ever be brave enough, to invite us to "PM" them our thoughts? :mrgreen:
Fair play though, many us say that the attractions should pay more attention to us "enthusiasts" - and here are two companies, doing exactly that... whatever the motivations are, that has to be applauded.
TheMan
YOU CAN SAVE YOUR THANKSIES, I\'LL HAVE A PINT OF BANKS\'S!
-
Rowe
Originally found by tidy_martin.
5D Ride Details Revealed
[quote=""UK Park News""]The ride, entitled ‘Vengeance’ is to be the UK’s first 5D Laser ride, “taking scare to a whole new level”.
“Guests will be transported to a séance set in Victorian times at 50 Berkeley Square, alleged to be the most haunted house in London at the time. Here riders will come face to face with one of the most famous and feared mediums of the age, Florence Cook, who will take them on the ultimate ghost hunt in a high octane battle of skill, speed and nerve.
Completely disorientated in the dark and spinning at high speeds, riders will shoot it out with twisted, vengeful spirits, whilst facing their full destructive force. This is definitely not a ride for the faint hearted and wusses should take the ‘escape door’ option!”
Vengeance is one of only 3 5D rides in the world, combing 5 Dimesions in the form of:
3D: Stunningly realistic high definition 3D film exclusively produced for the ride, enabling visitors to watch in terror as the strange spirits from 50 Berkeley Square appear to come to life around them!
4D: Incredible fully immersive special effects – including high speed rotating movements and unexpected ‘scare’ effects built into every seat – making up the fourth dimension
5D: A final, fifth dimension, rider interactivity, with a fast paced laser shoot-out enabling riders to fire at evil spirits using a Victorian style revolver laser gun.[/quote]
Exciting news, ey? This will certainly pull in even more guests to The London Dungeon and certainly sets a bar high for any other attraction in the capital.
5D Ride Details Revealed
[quote=""UK Park News""]The ride, entitled ‘Vengeance’ is to be the UK’s first 5D Laser ride, “taking scare to a whole new level”.
“Guests will be transported to a séance set in Victorian times at 50 Berkeley Square, alleged to be the most haunted house in London at the time. Here riders will come face to face with one of the most famous and feared mediums of the age, Florence Cook, who will take them on the ultimate ghost hunt in a high octane battle of skill, speed and nerve.
Completely disorientated in the dark and spinning at high speeds, riders will shoot it out with twisted, vengeful spirits, whilst facing their full destructive force. This is definitely not a ride for the faint hearted and wusses should take the ‘escape door’ option!”
Vengeance is one of only 3 5D rides in the world, combing 5 Dimesions in the form of:
3D: Stunningly realistic high definition 3D film exclusively produced for the ride, enabling visitors to watch in terror as the strange spirits from 50 Berkeley Square appear to come to life around them!
4D: Incredible fully immersive special effects – including high speed rotating movements and unexpected ‘scare’ effects built into every seat – making up the fourth dimension
5D: A final, fifth dimension, rider interactivity, with a fast paced laser shoot-out enabling riders to fire at evil spirits using a Victorian style revolver laser gun.[/quote]
Exciting news, ey? This will certainly pull in even more guests to The London Dungeon and certainly sets a bar high for any other attraction in the capital.
-
The London Dungeon
- New Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:38 am
We're going to be releasing more info, images and also running some competions about our new feature on our facebook (http://www.facebook.com/londondungeonofficial) so keeping checking us out, of course we'll keep Tower Times members updated as well so PM if you have any questions.
The London Dungeon
28/34 Tooley Street | London | SE1 2SZ |Tel]http://www.thedungeons.com[/url]
Join us on Facebook! http://www.facebook.com/londondungeonofficial
28/34 Tooley Street | London | SE1 2SZ |Tel]http://www.thedungeons.com[/url]
Join us on Facebook! http://www.facebook.com/londondungeonofficial
-
Rob L
- Member
- Posts: 2571
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:10 pm
- Location: Rothley, Leicester
- Contact:
I must say this sounds like it could be something rather good, it's certainly very interesting and I look forward to finding out more about it. Nice to see that The Dungeons are going to keep us updated as well, thanks!
Last edited by Rob L on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
nickhutson
- Member
- Posts: 348
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:52 am
- Location: London, England
- Contact:
"Victorian style laser guns". Hmmm...
Nick Hutson
Presenter - The Season Pass Podcast and Nick\'s Season Pass ERT
http://www.theseasonpasspodcast.com
Producer and Co-Presenter - MusicalTalk - The UK\'s Musical Theatre Podcast
http://www.musicaltalk.co.uk
Presenter - The Season Pass Podcast and Nick\'s Season Pass ERT
http://www.theseasonpasspodcast.com
Producer and Co-Presenter - MusicalTalk - The UK\'s Musical Theatre Podcast
http://www.musicaltalk.co.uk
-
Nightfall
- Member
- Posts: 2195
- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:10 am
- Location: Cambridge
A breakdown with Smiles
Vengeance
What a name!
5D :-k Makes sense I suppose. I was worried it would be a 4D cinema with extras.
séance set in Victorian times at 50 Berkeley Square
Sounds good. Innovative use of technology and historical story telling.
a fast paced laser shoot-out
This will be the tricky part. Either it will work and prove an interactive dark ride can be great but most likely it won't. However I've heard good things about the Legoland discovery centre laser rides and this could be the next step up. We shall see.
Nice move Dungeons
Vengeance
What a name!5D :-k Makes sense I suppose. I was worried it would be a 4D cinema with extras.
séance set in Victorian times at 50 Berkeley Square
Sounds good. Innovative use of technology and historical story telling.a fast paced laser shoot-out
This will be the tricky part. Either it will work and prove an interactive dark ride can be great but most likely it won't. However I've heard good things about the Legoland discovery centre laser rides and this could be the next step up. We shall see. Nice move Dungeons[align=center]
[/align]
[/align]-
AstroDan
Ahhh! Gotta love the London Dungeon - i really do think it's a brilliant way to spend 90 minutes.
They keep adding stuff to make me want to go back and this will be no different!
Any idea on an opening date?
They keep adding stuff to make me want to go back and this will be no different!
Any idea on an opening date?
-
Vanessa Feltz
- Member
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:43 pm
- Location: Thorpe Park
- Contact:
Personally I love the marketing with the Ghosts queueing, very well done to be honest, and quite amusing to see!
Previously Site Team!
"Thinks he knows it all"
"Thinks he knows it all"
-
Rollercoaster5000
- Member
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:43 pm
- Location: North London
- Contact:
Concept art for Vengeance has now been released!
Really looking forward to this.
Really looking forward to this.