2012: Nemesis - What Lies Beneath - Part 1

Got an idea of how the Alton Towers Resort may develop over the coming seasons? Discuss it here.
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BigAl
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Robo-arms eh? Themed to Nemesis tentacles or it's offspring? Machines that were built for military testing on the creature and its powers? They'd only be able to fit about 4 of them in but they'd offer a great new experience to the park and it would be a UK first! :)

The standard 2 seater Robocoaster G1 Robo-arms offer 120 to 600 riders an hour but they are designed for small parks.

http://www.robocoaster.com/g1-robot-systems

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A Gerstlauer Suspended Polyp would be nice as they're fast and intense and are amazing at night with all their effects in action but they're a bit too big. :/

I think there's only one in operation (Parkour - a fairground model that travels around German fairs) so it would be a pretty unique installation if they installed one somewhere else in the park.
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Jollylee11
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Enough with the Nemesis tentacles already! ;)
I also have not been on extremis so don't have a go at siralgenon
From POV & other it does look like the frog hopper
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BigAl
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Tentacles wrapped around robo-arms would look great though. I know it's an obvious choice and it's been mentioned before but it would suit the area and the combination of red, bloody muscles and hard, cold steel would look very striking.
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SIMR
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[quote=""CoasterCrazyChris""][quote=""SIMR""]^ As amazing as that sounds, do you really think Merlin would go to the extent of removing the hundreds of LEDs plastered all over the place and put the ride back to its old standard, knowing 95% of people that visit Alton don't even know about the Haunted House and see Duel as a good ride anyway?[/quote]

Oh no, the whole ride would have to be revamped with new scenes and new effects.

Hopefully retaining a few of the classic props and scenes (electric bill, the undertaker, grand hall, trommels tunnel etc).

:)[/quote]

As I said, that would be amazing, but I don't think Merlin would be up to doing that - we would just end up with Duel 2.0 (without the guns). We can all wish though :D
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Jiminy Cricket
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it will properly be a ride that we least expect
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coasterdude_1
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[quote=""Nightfall""]There is such a thing as CCTV. The ride opps on Th13teen can't see anything outside the station but they manage, guess how?

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The same goes for Hex. The ride opp can't actually see anything besides the outside of the drum but they have CCTV of the inside.


I will just note that my opinion on simulators and 3D screens hasn't changed. I can imagine they would build a Vengeance ride like PeteB suggested (and it certainly will fit the space) but I suspect it won't be anywhere near as good as we'd like it to be.
My view on drop towers hasn't changed either. I think it's a very bad idea to build one just two years after a very similar ride. However I also believe Alton would do something foolish like that. I also trust the people who have hinted “drop tower” for the last few months.[/quote]

I understand what you're saying re: CCTV, but remember that both the situations you are pointing out have no guest access to where the movement is taking place. In Hex, it is actually more essential that the operators can see the outside of the drum, as this is where the hazards lie. In Thirteen, the view is simply to monitor the train's progress (the quality isn't suitable as a safety mechanism) as this area is never accessed by guests on foot. In Hex, too, there is little area to 'get caught' as the only space in the room is benches (with tiny platforms at each end for access).

Now, if you have moving mechanisms (especially in the dark), the ride operator should have a full view of the ride operation area, as guests could easily be accidently left standing in the area etc. An obvious contradiction to this, however, would be Dr Dooms Fearfall, I guess.

Basically, the main point would be that there is ZERO point engineering in an operating booth that only watches one half of the ride as it puts a really bad and unnecessary safety bias on the side that can be seen, which would be unnacceptable in H&S terms... It'd be more consistent to have the booth elsewhere, rather than preferentially close to one half of the attraction...


Also, regarding the electricals box, it is extremely likely that this will be a power distribution substation as well as a switching unit, as I predict that whatever the attraction will be, will require more power than Dynamo did, and FV likely requires another substation anyway with the large amount of attractions+food stalls it now houses... I don't think it's location indicates the type of ride at all.



Finally, re: dropping below the initial level, I repeat, this is really unlikely as you'd have to have four separate floor removing mechanisms, as well as the four dropping mechanisms, and I can't really fathom a way that the floor could be removed in such an enclosed space with enough clearance in case people lean out, AS WELL as being safe for people to access the ride from...
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Can I just point out that the Pepsi Drop in the Troccadero had a moving floor for the upper tier of seating, a good 15 years ago?

Also, on Mystery Castle, the op booth is in the middle, and part of the [epic] theming.

I really don't want this to be drop towers, but at this stage we still don't know anything about the ride itself.
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Wizzy
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I absolutely hate to say it, but...
It sure seems like that sort of set up; with the sectioned queue, main ride chamber and what-not. I've not really looked into the Stitch attraction's sizing and the 2012's development footprint but I reckon it could be this type of ride. Feel free to wrong me.
Great Escape isn't that great an attraction, though. I always feel cheated after being dragged onto it.

-Wizzy :D
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Magrathea
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[quote=""BigAl""]Robo-arms eh? Themed to Nemesis tentacles or it's offspring? Machines that were built for military testing on the creature and its powers? They'd only be able to fit about 4 of them in but they'd offer a great new experience to the park and it would be a UK first! :)
[/quote]

I'm not sure that this would be a UK first, as The Grand Pier in Weston-super-Mare has had a Kuka Robo-Arm operating for over a year now.

The other problem with them is the dire capacity which comes from only having two seats, which would be terrible even with multiple arms.

I personally think that as a drop tower the experience would be incomparible to Th13teen's, especially if the drop was powered (à la Detonator) instead of simply freefall. There's also the fact that you'd be sitting in a different type of seating and wouldn't be on a coaster and ultimately I doubt people would ride it and then go "Wait...what was the point of this?! An element of it was similar to another ride in this park..."

Compare this to DLP, where you have Dumbos, Orbitron and Magic Carpets across the two parks, and the similarity is nothing to worry about. :)
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coasterdude_1
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[quote=""DiogoJ42""]Can I just point out that the Pepsi Drop in the Troccadero had a moving floor for the upper tier of seating, a good 15 years ago?
[/quote]

Sure, I know this, but given the size and shape of the building inside, if there were 4 drops on the walls, there'd not really be anywhere for four moving floors to go....


Also, re the Disney comment, you have to wonder if Disney have shares in those Dumbo style rides with the number of times they use the across their parks ;) However, at disney theyre tied to movies etc, which gives them a better excuse for duplicates that people recognise less...
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BigAl
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[quote=""Magrathea""][quote=""BigAl""]Robo-arms eh? Themed to Nemesis tentacles or it's offspring? Machines that were built for military testing on the creature and its powers? They'd only be able to fit about 4 of them in but they'd offer a great new experience to the park and it would be a UK first! :)
[/quote]

I'm not sure that this would be a UK first, as The Grand Pier in Weston-super-Mare has had a Kuka Robo-Arm operating for over a year now.

The other problem with them is the dire capacity which comes from only having two seats, which would be terrible even with multiple arms.

I personally think that as a drop tower the experience would be incomparible to Th13teen's, especially if the drop was powered (à la Detonator) instead of simply freefall. There's also the fact that you'd be sitting in a different type of seating and wouldn't be on a coaster and ultimately I doubt people would ride it and then go "Wait...what was the point of this?! An element of it was similar to another ride in this park..."

Compare this to DLP, where you have Dumbos, Orbitron and Magic Carpets across the two parks, and the similarity is nothing to worry about. :)[/quote]
Oh if there's one here I'll have to go and check it out one day! Agreed on the capacity issues although there are 3 seat ones but even then that wouldn't really help a lot.

The key feature of Th13teen is the drop and everyone knows that so another drop ride would disappoint many people. Remember that marketing would most likely focus on people screaming as they drop and that's exactly the same as the Th13teen marketing. If it is a 5m drop and it's powered it would be over before you realise what happened and wouldn't be thrilling in the slightest.
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PeteB
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[quote=""BigAl""][quote=""Magrathea""][quote=""BigAl""]Robo-arms eh? Themed to Nemesis tentacles or it's offspring? Machines that were built for military testing on the creature and its powers? They'd only be able to fit about 4 of them in but they'd offer a great new experience to the park and it would be a UK first! :)
[/quote]

I'm not sure that this would be a UK first, as The Grand Pier in Weston-super-Mare has had a Kuka Robo-Arm operating for over a year now.

The other problem with them is the dire capacity which comes from only having two seats, which would be terrible even with multiple arms.

I personally think that as a drop tower the experience would be incomparible to Th13teen's, especially if the drop was powered (à la Detonator) instead of simply freefall. There's also the fact that you'd be sitting in a different type of seating and wouldn't be on a coaster and ultimately I doubt people would ride it and then go "Wait...what was the point of this?! An element of it was similar to another ride in this park..."

Compare this to DLP, where you have Dumbos, Orbitron and Magic Carpets across the two parks, and the similarity is nothing to worry about. :)[/quote]
Oh if there's one here I'll have to go and check it out one day! Agreed on the capacity issues although there are 3 seat ones but even then that wouldn't really help a lot.

The key feature of Th13teen is the drop and everyone knows that so another drop ride would disappoint many people. Remember that marketing would most likely focus on people screaming as they drop and that's exactly the same as the Th13teen marketing. If it is a 5m drop and it's powered it would be over before you realise what happened and wouldn't be thrilling in the slightest.[/quote]

Can I just point out that in total there is about what 11m of height to this thing? 6m above ground and 5m below. What the hell do you need a hole 5m deep for? Certainly not basic ride mechanics thats for sure, most rides are not going to need that much space below ground level. 5m is over 16ft. If after the lifts you are still at ground level it would mean loading a drop tower in a sort of mid way position. Just doesnt add up.

I can however imagine some robo arms in there because having been on harry potter they are big scary looking machines. I can remember looking down at the warehouse floor and it was a good 15ft drop, maybe more.

Point is, in their loading position they were still quite high so if you came off the lifts still at ground level it wouldnt be unreasonable to load straight onto a robo arm. As it moves back from the loading platform they'd have the full 11m of height to play with.

I really dont like that idea though. Like I said, they are big ugly machines and I dont trust robotics in the slightest, especially not since one actually shoved me into part of the scenery on harry potter.
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BigAl
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Perhaps if there is such a large space under the ride area that this could be some form of robocoaster built to operate like a flat ride. A circular piece of track and the ride mechanism underneath and numerous arms are lifted up over the side of the hole to allow for boarding. Then a boarding platform drops away and the arms pull all the riders into the middle and rotate them to face each other and the ride starts to rotate. Some kind of story could be being played to the riders as the machines pick up speed and begin to rock them and tilt them with increasing speed and force. The final sequence of the ride could be a hatch that opens beneath the riders to reveal some monster (possibly part of Nemesis or something related) and the riders are pulled towards it but pitched upside down to make it more intense but the operation is shut down by the military who oversee the testing and the lights turn on, the arms raise up and the platforms open back out to allow the riders to exit unscathed by the monster/s. There could be 6 arms, each with 4 seats making for 24 riders. It still isn't a lot but it's an increase over standard 2-3 seater roboarms. It would probably have a capacity of around 400-600 riders an hour depending on how long the ride would run for.

It's too much for a medium investment, I agree, but it's just a guess. They said it would be special and that sort of ride would definitely be interesting. I know for certain that we don't have anything like that in the UK.



This looks Kuka 4D simulator robo-arm looks interesting:
http://www.kuka-entertainment.com/en/pr ... simulator/

I don't think they will ever install any though.
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CAWBieber
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Well the robocoaster is a good idea but I don't thingl they would add that
But there is some on vekoma which is called Pandora's Box which looks good
Reason why they should have this:
1. It is a world's first
2. It is thrilling
3. Includes freefall
4. Goes upside down
5. It is all based around a box with scenery in it
6. It is like a roboarm
7. Don't use up much space
8. Pulls up to 2.5gs
9. All the movements are freely programmed

As you can see the ride is very good in meany ways

Here is a link to the website:
http://www.vekoma.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=30

And a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPqb2YyX-sI
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Woah, I've been off the forum for a while and I come back to this very awesome and exciting news indeed. I have had a quick looks at the floor plans and as with everything else it sure is a guessing game at the moment. I can't wait to know what this is going to be. In a way I'm more excited about this than I am of Swarm!
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Chris W
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It won't be a Vekoma Pandora's Box, Efteling were meant to be getting one but that is in doubt now as it looks like Vekoma can't get the system working correctly.

I'd be very surprised if we got anything other than a drop tower.
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CAWBieber
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This is really annoying nobody knows and we guess and guess but I bet it will be something we won't expected!!
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Are you thirsty?
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CAWBieber
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Maybe but it has to fit in the ride space and has to be 11m or less
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sku11dude123
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P.S: this is an artists impression

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