The park lacks in ride capacity horribly and if they try to extend their market to more countries, I worry it'll get even busier than it does already.
It is an amazing and beautiful theme park, but aren't they getting a bit ahead of themselves?
Efteling
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AstroDan
Hang on - so Efteling are going to effectively try to advertise in several new countries? I presume they already advertise across Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg and small parts of France/Germany.
The park lacks in ride capacity horribly and if they try to extend their market to more countries, I worry it'll get even busier than it does already.
It is an amazing and beautiful theme park, but aren't they getting a bit ahead of themselves?
The park lacks in ride capacity horribly and if they try to extend their market to more countries, I worry it'll get even busier than it does already.
It is an amazing and beautiful theme park, but aren't they getting a bit ahead of themselves?
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Sam
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Although the park has a problem with capacity, I think they're trying to alleviate that. Raveleijn is a massive step forwards. They have 5 shows a day, 30 minutes each, and the theatre seats 1200. That's 6000 people over the day who aren't in the queues for anything else for two and a half hours over the day. It really adds to the park's capacity impressively, considering there was no attraction there before!
Next year I really hope they install a small kiddy flat along with the new fountain show. And then finally Hartenhof, again replacing nothing, which if they've got their heads screwed on, should have a massive throughput. I'm hoping for 1500pph minimum, preferably over 2000. It looks like the park have settled into the additions groove of every other major park, with an attraction added or going to be added every year from 2009 (Bosrijk) to 2013 (Hartenhof). If you look at their additions history, this hasn't happened since the 1980s. If they keep this up, I can see them expanding the park's capacity very quickly.
Next year I really hope they install a small kiddy flat along with the new fountain show. And then finally Hartenhof, again replacing nothing, which if they've got their heads screwed on, should have a massive throughput. I'm hoping for 1500pph minimum, preferably over 2000. It looks like the park have settled into the additions groove of every other major park, with an attraction added or going to be added every year from 2009 (Bosrijk) to 2013 (Hartenhof). If you look at their additions history, this hasn't happened since the 1980s. If they keep this up, I can see them expanding the park's capacity very quickly.
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Gloomy Dude
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Indeed. Efteling appears to be unstoppable at the moment, but I hope their expanding portfolio is managed well enough to offset the impact of these amazingly ambitious guest numbers on a day at the park.
Ah, Efteling. I might even get round to that trip report at some point. It's been 2 weels...
Ah, Efteling. I might even get round to that trip report at some point. It's been 2 weels...
For some things there is no rational explanation. There is no way out. There is no happy ending to this story. Welcome to the unknown. Welcome to eternal darkness.
Welcome to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory - The Ride
Welcome to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory - The Ride
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AstroDan
Raveljin at 6,000 per day gets far less than a major coaster would, though.
They need queue eating stuff. Joris x5!
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They need queue eating stuff. Joris x5!
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CorineC
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Nobody can deny that they have a capacity problem on busy days, but I do believe that this will be alleviated in the future.
Hartenhof has a double platform, so I think that it could reach at least 2.000 guests per hour. Furthermore, it is designed to open up before and after regular park opening hours. They can just close the gates to the remaining part of the park. That is also their intent at the moment. It will open up at least half an hour before park opening and will close much later which is (partly) being paid for by letting the accompanying restaurant also open up during those extra hours.
Aquanura may not eat crowds to lessen the lines at the other attractions, but it does add to the experience of the guests.
In addition, large restaurants will have been added for three years in a row (2010: Station de Oost(replacement, but it far exceeds the capacity of the replaced restaurant); 2011: Raveleijn's restaurant; 2012: Pancake restaurant 'Polle's Keuken). Refurbishments to restaurants to add capacity have been done (Casa Caracol at Piranha) and are planned for the near future.
Hartenhof has a double platform, so I think that it could reach at least 2.000 guests per hour. Furthermore, it is designed to open up before and after regular park opening hours. They can just close the gates to the remaining part of the park. That is also their intent at the moment. It will open up at least half an hour before park opening and will close much later which is (partly) being paid for by letting the accompanying restaurant also open up during those extra hours.
Aquanura may not eat crowds to lessen the lines at the other attractions, but it does add to the experience of the guests.
In addition, large restaurants will have been added for three years in a row (2010: Station de Oost(replacement, but it far exceeds the capacity of the replaced restaurant); 2011: Raveleijn's restaurant; 2012: Pancake restaurant 'Polle's Keuken). Refurbishments to restaurants to add capacity have been done (Casa Caracol at Piranha) and are planned for the near future.
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Sam
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Just... wow.
Corine, could you be so kind to fill us in on the latest rumours and details about Hartenhof? I am not brave enough to browse the Dutch forums with Google Translate! Sounds like there's been some more news!
2000pph is simply massive. Has duel stations been confirmed? Efteling have experience with this, with the Flying Dutchman, so it makes sense. Do you know the manufacturer yet or the ride system? Please god let it be nothing to do with Vekoma and that wretched Pandora's Box. [-o<
What you mention is unprecedented as far as I recall. A ride that is clearly going to be so massive, that it somehow supersedes the boundary of being another theme park attraction, even in an excellent park like Efteling, and becomes so much more. I don't think there's ever been a ride in any park anywhere that opens and shuts before and after the park does. Or a ride that is designed to have it's own entrance separate from the park.
I predict this ride will be of such quality, and so huge, that it will rival the rest of the entire (already excellent) park. And I'm glad it will have the throughputs to bear the weight. You say it will close "much later"? I can't wait after my day of park to go for a meal at Polle's Kitchen, and then as the sun is sinking in the sky, grab a few more twilight rides on the greatest ride ever built.
Glad to hear they're working on the restaurants, now they just need to work on the food! Station de Oost is absolutely massive, and in such a beautiful Efteling style. I know all the Eftelist people hate it, but I think Casa Caracol is a really nice addition. They're gonna be the theme park culinary capital of Europe soon!
Corine, could you be so kind to fill us in on the latest rumours and details about Hartenhof? I am not brave enough to browse the Dutch forums with Google Translate! Sounds like there's been some more news!
2000pph is simply massive. Has duel stations been confirmed? Efteling have experience with this, with the Flying Dutchman, so it makes sense. Do you know the manufacturer yet or the ride system? Please god let it be nothing to do with Vekoma and that wretched Pandora's Box. [-o<
What you mention is unprecedented as far as I recall. A ride that is clearly going to be so massive, that it somehow supersedes the boundary of being another theme park attraction, even in an excellent park like Efteling, and becomes so much more. I don't think there's ever been a ride in any park anywhere that opens and shuts before and after the park does. Or a ride that is designed to have it's own entrance separate from the park.
I predict this ride will be of such quality, and so huge, that it will rival the rest of the entire (already excellent) park. And I'm glad it will have the throughputs to bear the weight. You say it will close "much later"? I can't wait after my day of park to go for a meal at Polle's Kitchen, and then as the sun is sinking in the sky, grab a few more twilight rides on the greatest ride ever built.
Glad to hear they're working on the restaurants, now they just need to work on the food! Station de Oost is absolutely massive, and in such a beautiful Efteling style. I know all the Eftelist people hate it, but I think Casa Caracol is a really nice addition. They're gonna be the theme park culinary capital of Europe soon!
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AstroDan
To be fair, opening and closing rides earlier/later, is no different to staggered ride openings which happen at many parks around the world. Only difference here is that they clearly plan Hartenhof and its plaza to be an area in its own right, with the ability to detach it from the rest of the park.
2,000 is a very good capacity figure, this is along the lines of an Omnimover and similar to dark rides such as Pirates of the Carribean (Disney) and Piraten in Batavia (EP).
2,000 is a very good capacity figure, this is along the lines of an Omnimover and similar to dark rides such as Pirates of the Carribean (Disney) and Piraten in Batavia (EP).
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CorineC
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[quote=""Sam""]Just... wow.
Corine, could you be so kind to fill us in on the latest rumours and details about Hartenhof? I am not brave enough to browse the Dutch forums with Google Translate! Sounds like there's been some more news!
2000pph is simply massive. Has duel stations been confirmed? Efteling have experience with this, with the Flying Dutchman, so it makes sense. Do you know the manufacturer yet or the ride system? Please god let it be nothing to do with Vekoma and that wretched Pandora's Box. [-o< [/quote]
To be honest, I thought it was already known that Hartenhof would have a dual station, because it was visible on the blueprints they submitted in order to get the permit, already back in 2010. There is just nothing more to tell
The two stations also have separate boarding and unloading platforms, so that should speed things up too. The rest are all just rumors on differently programmed ride experiences etc. All I know is that capacity building is a primary objective since The Flying Dutchman. But the system shouldn't remain a secret for too long though. I'm surely not an expert, but the start on the construction is, I think, planned for this autumn as it would otherwise be Spring 2012 and that would be too tight. It would also explain the, in my eyes, strange planning for Polle's Keuken, which looks like they could already finish it in 2011 if they continue in this manner. I know they want that one finished before they start working on Hartenhof. I also believe that they don't want too many building sites up during the 60th anniversary.
So, on the second point: could be... could be not... To be honest, I try to spread as little rumors as possible and just stick to the facts. I would have a full time job if I had to communicate those over here if you look at the number of posts on the several Efteling fora 
. In general, Eftelist is the more trustworthy source if it is a message from one of the moderators.
---- Post Info Added ----
Efteling has released two concept arts of the Aquanura water show, scheduled for opening next year. Total investment in the 10-minute show will be € 17.000.000 in which, next to water, music, light and fire will have a prominent position. In the future, also other watershows will find their place on the lake. This all according to the press release
Corine, could you be so kind to fill us in on the latest rumours and details about Hartenhof? I am not brave enough to browse the Dutch forums with Google Translate! Sounds like there's been some more news!
2000pph is simply massive. Has duel stations been confirmed? Efteling have experience with this, with the Flying Dutchman, so it makes sense. Do you know the manufacturer yet or the ride system? Please god let it be nothing to do with Vekoma and that wretched Pandora's Box. [-o< [/quote]
To be honest, I thought it was already known that Hartenhof would have a dual station, because it was visible on the blueprints they submitted in order to get the permit, already back in 2010. There is just nothing more to tell
The two stations also have separate boarding and unloading platforms, so that should speed things up too. The rest are all just rumors on differently programmed ride experiences etc. All I know is that capacity building is a primary objective since The Flying Dutchman. But the system shouldn't remain a secret for too long though. I'm surely not an expert, but the start on the construction is, I think, planned for this autumn as it would otherwise be Spring 2012 and that would be too tight. It would also explain the, in my eyes, strange planning for Polle's Keuken, which looks like they could already finish it in 2011 if they continue in this manner. I know they want that one finished before they start working on Hartenhof. I also believe that they don't want too many building sites up during the 60th anniversary.So, on the second point: could be... could be not...
To be honest, I try to spread as little rumors as possible and just stick to the facts. I would have a full time job if I had to communicate those over here if you look at the number of posts on the several Efteling fora . In general, Eftelist is the more trustworthy source if it is a message from one of the moderators.---- Post Info Added ----
Efteling has released two concept arts of the Aquanura water show, scheduled for opening next year. Total investment in the 10-minute show will be € 17.000.000 in which, next to water, music, light and fire will have a prominent position. In the future, also other watershows will find their place on the lake. This all according to the press release
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AstroDan
Again, as with everything this looks gorgeous, but I can't help think €17,000,000 on a water show.
My god. Black Mamba cost that...
My god. Black Mamba cost that...
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Rob L
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€17 million on a water show! Sure it's great to have things like this but I can't help feel money like that could be far better spent!
However I can think of someone up in Blackpool that may be slightly jealous! :P
However I can think of someone up in Blackpool that may be slightly jealous! :P
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Thorpefandan
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She'll be a wreck :P
It looks beautiful, only Efteling would go and make Frog fountains that massive! This will be so so magical.I'm a little bit saddened at the need to add a platform in front of Fata Morgana, and kill the mirage like reflection off the lake. I'm not sure if the massive budget is a good or bad thing, it could mean this is amazing, but it also denies us the rumoured B&M.
It looks beautiful, only Efteling would go and make Frog fountains that massive! This will be so so magical.I'm a little bit saddened at the need to add a platform in front of Fata Morgana, and kill the mirage like reflection off the lake. I'm not sure if the massive budget is a good or bad thing, it could mean this is amazing, but it also denies us the rumoured B&M.
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Sam
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It does seem like a bit of a waste of money. Though it's not like they have to make a decision between this OR a world class dark ride is it?
Corine, could you help me with this plan for Polle's Kitchen?
Clearly the big bit on the right will be the restaurant, and I can see both sets of toilets, and presumably one room will be the kitchen, but what are all the other rooms for? The actual restaurant is quite small really!
Corine, could you help me with this plan for Polle's Kitchen?
Clearly the big bit on the right will be the restaurant, and I can see both sets of toilets, and presumably one room will be the kitchen, but what are all the other rooms for? The actual restaurant is quite small really!
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CorineC
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Sure, I can help out
Next to the smaller set of toilets, there is the takeout. I don't know what they are going to sell over there, but probably just coffee and donuts etc. At the other side of the hallway, there are just kitchens, storage rooms, freezers etc. and attached to that side of the building there will be a porch ('veranda).
Around the corner and after the toilet section over there, there is another takeout which specifically mentions coffee and ice cream.
So, there are two takeout spots and then there is the pancake restaurant on the right.
---- Post Info Added ----
Good news and bad news from Efteling.
Let's start off with the bad news: Hartenhof has been postponed by at least another two years (2015) due to the heavy investment in Aquanura for 2012. I don't feel too sorry for that decision actually. It seems like such an investment policy is much wiser than their previous planning. We already had the GCI in 2010 and Raveleijn in 2011. Now Aquanura is coming in 2012. It just doesn't make much sense to have another heavy investment in 2013, although, of course, I would have gladly appreciated the opening of Hartenhof in 2013 from an enthusiast perspective. Another advantage is that their sixtieth anniversary will not happen with a HUGE construction site in the centre of the park. Plans for the sixtieth anniversary are going to be released after the Summer season. Their fiftieth anniversary was really special with documentaries about the history of the park, a 200+ paged book about the park with information and drawings, the re-introduction of all kinds of gadgets that were there to celebrate the opening of the rides etc. We know they have been planning the anniversary for a long time already, but the only thing known so far is that the park will stay open, for the first time ever, during new years eve (till 01:00 AM). Renovations for several of the rides, like Piranha, to put them in their original shape are already under way. So, if you would ever feel like visiting Efteling, 2012 would probably be the best year
Let's switch the commercial mode off
The good news... a drawing of the interior of the new restaurant (Polle's Keuken) was also released:
The press release states the following about the style: "a mix of Anton Pieck (Enchanted forest creator) with a fantasy look utilizing thatched roofs, lots of copper and double-layered stuccowork".
Next to the smaller set of toilets, there is the takeout. I don't know what they are going to sell over there, but probably just coffee and donuts etc. At the other side of the hallway, there are just kitchens, storage rooms, freezers etc. and attached to that side of the building there will be a porch ('veranda).
Around the corner and after the toilet section over there, there is another takeout which specifically mentions coffee and ice cream.
So, there are two takeout spots and then there is the pancake restaurant on the right.
---- Post Info Added ----
Good news and bad news from Efteling.
Let's start off with the bad news: Hartenhof has been postponed by at least another two years (2015) due to the heavy investment in Aquanura for 2012. I don't feel too sorry for that decision actually. It seems like such an investment policy is much wiser than their previous planning. We already had the GCI in 2010 and Raveleijn in 2011. Now Aquanura is coming in 2012. It just doesn't make much sense to have another heavy investment in 2013, although, of course, I would have gladly appreciated the opening of Hartenhof in 2013 from an enthusiast perspective. Another advantage is that their sixtieth anniversary will not happen with a HUGE construction site in the centre of the park. Plans for the sixtieth anniversary are going to be released after the Summer season. Their fiftieth anniversary was really special with documentaries about the history of the park, a 200+ paged book about the park with information and drawings, the re-introduction of all kinds of gadgets that were there to celebrate the opening of the rides etc. We know they have been planning the anniversary for a long time already, but the only thing known so far is that the park will stay open, for the first time ever, during new years eve (till 01:00 AM). Renovations for several of the rides, like Piranha, to put them in their original shape are already under way. So, if you would ever feel like visiting Efteling, 2012 would probably be the best year
Let's switch the commercial mode off
The good news... a drawing of the interior of the new restaurant (Polle's Keuken) was also released:
The press release states the following about the style: "a mix of Anton Pieck (Enchanted forest creator) with a fantasy look utilizing thatched roofs, lots of copper and double-layered stuccowork".
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Thorpefandan
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It looks good,, but I'm getting a little dubious about Hartenhof. Are we actually ever going to see it built? They keep postponing it and I wonder if there are some big flaws in the plans.
Polle's kitchen looks nice.
Polle's kitchen looks nice.
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Sam
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FFS. It's stuff like this Efteling. >_<
Cancel the bloody stupid dancing water show. It's costing an obscene amount of money for what it is. No water show can ever be as good as a Black Mamba even if it projects a dancing naked John Wardley onto a 1000ft wall of water.
How are they supposed to compete with DLP if their ride comes out two years later? Ratatouille is going to leave them in the dust, and all they'll have to show for it is a Mandy style dancing fountain show that even Alton Towers got rid of in 1992.
Be warned Efteling management, this is a stupid stupid decision. Europa are investing hugely every year, and DLP have big investment coming up. A constant high level of investment is the only way to compete in Europe now. You can't keep coasting along like you did in the last 90s. If you're not careful, you'll be the European also-ran.
Edit: to try and be positive, Polle's Kitchen looks lovely (but tiny capacity?), even when you do the concept art rule of dividing the quality in half. Also glad to hear Pirana getting a refurb, I hope they sort out the ugly lift-hill area and give the ride some atmosphere which I thought it was lacking somewhat.
Cancel the bloody stupid dancing water show. It's costing an obscene amount of money for what it is. No water show can ever be as good as a Black Mamba even if it projects a dancing naked John Wardley onto a 1000ft wall of water.
How are they supposed to compete with DLP if their ride comes out two years later? Ratatouille is going to leave them in the dust, and all they'll have to show for it is a Mandy style dancing fountain show that even Alton Towers got rid of in 1992.
Be warned Efteling management, this is a stupid stupid decision. Europa are investing hugely every year, and DLP have big investment coming up. A constant high level of investment is the only way to compete in Europe now. You can't keep coasting along like you did in the last 90s. If you're not careful, you'll be the European also-ran.
Edit: to try and be positive, Polle's Kitchen looks lovely (but tiny capacity?), even when you do the concept art rule of dividing the quality in half. Also glad to hear Pirana getting a refurb, I hope they sort out the ugly lift-hill area and give the ride some atmosphere which I thought it was lacking somewhat.
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CorineC
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If Ratatouille would be an issue, they shouldn't build the ride at all. Aquanura is probably not the only reason. Efteling is perfectly capable of going through times of non-investment in rides although nobody has said that no new rides will be added in 2013 nor 2014. 2009 delivered record breaking attendance number with no new rides, actually Pagode was closed for the season and the park had to miss a large restaurant during the entire year. The park always invests a lot of money, only not always in new rides.
I think that if they wouldn't have announced it, nobody would complain about their current investment policy. The only reason why they announce rides prior to the start of construction is that all permit procedures are public in the Netherlands. If they request a permit, it becomes public instantly.
EDIT: capacity of Polle's Keuken is 140 seats. Next to the pancake restaurant, there are three counters for coffee, donuts and ice cream. 140 seats is not that much, but if you look at the drawing, it is easily expandable. There is a lot of space left on the square.
EDIT II: some more info on the delay as Efteling's CEO is 'fighting off' the enthusiasts on Twitter to which, I must say, give him Kudos for that (at the least he communicates directly). In a nutshell, they just couldn't manage Hartenhof in 2012, so that's why they chose for Aquanura (because it is an anniversary year) and they just don't want another mega project straight after Aquanura in 2013 because the impact of Aquanura and Hartenhof would be less (on a side note, I find it hilarious to see a CEO use this kind of language "Wat WET doet is @#$%ing impressive" - What WET does is ..." Dutch ain't that hard, you see. His response to a question on missing an opportunity because another park could steal their thunder with building a Hartenhof kind of ride is that they are 100% sure that it will be unique and worldclass (which totally corresponds with the fact of it being a prototype).
I really have the feeling that people underestimate the dancing fountains show. I honestly believe that this is probably the best investment since Droomvlucht in 1992/3.
I think that if they wouldn't have announced it, nobody would complain about their current investment policy. The only reason why they announce rides prior to the start of construction is that all permit procedures are public in the Netherlands. If they request a permit, it becomes public instantly.
EDIT: capacity of Polle's Keuken is 140 seats. Next to the pancake restaurant, there are three counters for coffee, donuts and ice cream. 140 seats is not that much, but if you look at the drawing, it is easily expandable. There is a lot of space left on the square.
EDIT II: some more info on the delay as Efteling's CEO is 'fighting off' the enthusiasts on Twitter to which, I must say, give him Kudos for that (at the least he communicates directly). In a nutshell, they just couldn't manage Hartenhof in 2012, so that's why they chose for Aquanura (because it is an anniversary year) and they just don't want another mega project straight after Aquanura in 2013 because the impact of Aquanura and Hartenhof would be less (on a side note, I find it hilarious to see a CEO use this kind of language "Wat WET doet is @#$%ing impressive" - What WET does is ..." Dutch ain't that hard, you see
. His response to a question on missing an opportunity because another park could steal their thunder with building a Hartenhof kind of ride is that they are 100% sure that it will be unique and worldclass (which totally corresponds with the fact of it being a prototype). I really have the feeling that people underestimate the dancing fountains show. I honestly believe that this is probably the best investment since Droomvlucht in 1992/3.
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Sam
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I've seen the dancing water show at the Bellagio in Las Vegas by the same people which I believe is bigger than this one. I mean, it was alright. But at the end of the day it was a fountain show. A big fountain show yes, but whatever the scale that's still basically what it is.
I think all this stuff about not wanting a construction site on park for the anniversary is crap. I think it's great to have construction sites on park during celebrations! It's basically saying "Yeah, look at what we're building next, we're moving forwards at 60!"
I was thinking maybe if Hartenhof is pushed back that we could see a Python replacement before then, maybe for 2014? If it was on the scale of Mamba then it'd cost about the same as Aquanura (which doesn't seem much for Efteling to be honest). If not then it really needs to be 2017 at the latest, Python is an embarrassment.
If they really want to celebrate their anniversary, they should install a high capacity Waveswinger or something similar in a low key location. If they're serious about these visitor numbers, they should at least be adding low-key capacity increasing flat rides every year before Hartenhof. Is Hartenhof still a Pandora's Box?
I think all this stuff about not wanting a construction site on park for the anniversary is crap. I think it's great to have construction sites on park during celebrations! It's basically saying "Yeah, look at what we're building next, we're moving forwards at 60!"
I was thinking maybe if Hartenhof is pushed back that we could see a Python replacement before then, maybe for 2014? If it was on the scale of Mamba then it'd cost about the same as Aquanura (which doesn't seem much for Efteling to be honest). If not then it really needs to be 2017 at the latest, Python is an embarrassment.
If they really want to celebrate their anniversary, they should install a high capacity Waveswinger or something similar in a low key location. If they're serious about these visitor numbers, they should at least be adding low-key capacity increasing flat rides every year before Hartenhof.
Is Hartenhof still a Pandora's Box?-
AstroDan
Quite simply, maybe Efteling don't have the money we thought they did? As I have previously said, they chronically need more ride capacity - they are being dwarfed by some other parks at the moment.
The water show sounds fabulous, but as Sam has said, it is a water show at the end of the day. With Hartenhof now 4 years away, we may aswell forget about it until 2014! By that time, we will have SW7, LC12, Europa's GCI, Europa's new hotel, Disneys Ratatouille, new B&Ms at both PA's, plus no doubt loads more. What will Efteling have given us by then?
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The water show sounds fabulous, but as Sam has said, it is a water show at the end of the day. With Hartenhof now 4 years away, we may aswell forget about it until 2014! By that time, we will have SW7, LC12, Europa's GCI, Europa's new hotel, Disneys Ratatouille, new B&Ms at both PA's, plus no doubt loads more. What will Efteling have given us by then?
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk