Legoland Billund

[BigAl]

I was on about the drop section on Verbolten, not the whole ride. BGW has spent longer on that ride and aren't going to settle for a poor experience with it.

[Benzin]

It looks unfinished tbh more than anything...

If it was dark inside (i.e. have a door shut behind a la Thirteen) I doubt you'd even notice the inside as much... I like the video screen touch tbh, and as per usual, it's hard to tell how effective the drop actually is from a POV... Not that it's going to be intense by any stretch of the imagination...

Hard to tell really... I'd like to hear reviews from people who have ridden it really... And then Verbolten as well obvs...

[captain]

I wouldn't be disappointed if they received a Zierer model though. They've proven that they can do it just as well as Intamin but for a better price.

Err what? They clearly can't do it as well as Intamin for the same price: the drop is CLEARLY much weaker, the throughputs look much lower, and the drop mechanism is much more visible and obvious. 

Oh come on Sam. The same price?! Thirteen was allegedly £15million, for just a coaster. For £8.5million, Legoland have built the new Zierer drop coaster, entirely new penguin enclosure and viewing area, masses of new theming including large-scale Lego models and a giant mountain (admittedly looks poor), new Merlin pizza-pasta restaurant overlooking the penguins and rethemedold Power Builder (Robocoaster)  into a flight simulator.

That's incredible value, or Thirteen was a rip-off (probably both). But the same price?! Don't mislead people.

Another thing to remember is that the target market for this: Legoland target 3-12 year-olds?! The drop looks gash, but I'd say that it will be pretty good for an 8-year-old. I agree that I would hope for better for Verbolten, but Verbolten's drop is taller I think, plus will be in the actual dark, with giant hands attacking you from above.

Also, how have you made any judgement on throughputs from a POV? Especially since Verbolten has 5 trains, indicating pretty epic throughputs?

[Sam]

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. What BigAl was saying is that the quality difference between the two systems is the same, but Zierer's is cheaper.

I was saying that yes, Zierer's is cheaper, but that is reflected in the quality of the systems. I know Zierer's is cheaper, but I think you get what you pay for. This is crap.

[captain]

Well in that case fair enough, although I would still disagree.

Let's guess that Polar Xplorer was about £6million, giving £2million for the other improvements. So for £6 million, Zierer have manufactured a coaster that fits the brief entirely, for the target market, with a decent outdoor section. The drop does look pretty rubbish from a front mounted POV but again, the drop was in theory designed for that target market. The drop mechanism requires a certain amount of brake space to slow it safely, so if the park wants a small height free fall, it won't get very far before hitting the brakes, as this one does. The section following the drop is as exactly specified in the ride's brief before construction began.

Thirteen was £15million. The outdoor section is completely useless, with no thrill or speed or airtime at all. It was trimmed because it kept breaking the bizarre lift system. I would be very surprised if the Zierer system has downtime anywhere near comparable to Intamin's system. Thirteen's drop is very good, and the backwards bit is quite good, but I think it was really terrible value in comparison. It's overall a mediocre coaster (obviously opinion) for a lot of money. Polar Xplorer looks to have a much better coaster section but a much worse drop. But it was infinitely cheaper, and I think much better value. Better quality per pound spent if you will.

If I was a Legoland  now, I would still have chosen the Zierer system.

Edit: If I was BGW I wouldn't be sure. It depends how much effect the increased height of the drop has on the freefall, and how much the theming costs would have been effected by the more expensive system. Plus obviously the outdoor section - currently I would say Zierer look far more capable of that than Intamin.

[Johno]

But your basing it on the fact that Intamin couldn't produce a good coaster section.

I'm pretty sure they easily could have done.

[Dormiens-Dave]

Why are we guessing this roller coaster is 6 million? don't make comparisons on price if your guessing the cost of one of the rides.

As for the difference in cost, you don't need to dig a big hole for the Zierer system (or build a tall building) as it doesn't have the tower structure to house underneath the track. The Zierer system uses a winch and cables to raise the track, Intamin use a hydraulic ram (benefit being you can have the false drop). The Intamin system has a faster reset time as well, the Zierer system has to raise the track to the top then take the lifting bar back down to the bottom. Intamins drop track is like lightening for reseting.

All these things (hole, higher quality system) demonstrate the difference in price along with the special footers in the woods to avoid tree roots. Also finally Towers tend to exaggerate their ride costs by adding the marketing budget and probably the other costs that go into the development (like the money they are forced to spend on the Ruins when they build things).

All in all i think the Intamin system looks better.

[DiogoJ42]

Wow. That really does look dire. :no: That's not a drop, that's a lift.

[Nightfall]

For Legoland I think this was definitely the right choice of manufacturer. I'd say the same for Busch Gardens as I get the feeling their freefall drop is going to be in near complete darkness so it won't matter what it looks like. However Intamin's drop track is certainly the superior of the two. It’s designed in a more surreptitious manner and it takes less time to park and relaunch (based on clips of Verbolten testing as well as Polar). I’m also willing to bet it packs more of a punch as Intamin are the drop tower experts but we’ll have to wait and see.

Now I think we’re all in agreement that Alton paid way too much for Th13teen. But firstly we don’t know how much of that 15 million was marketing and prototype development. Neither of these things would have been major factors for this ride as I’m assuming it’s Busch who are paying the prototyping bills. If anything Merlin could have done a deal with Zierer as I’m sure Merlin’s knowledge from Th13teens failings would have been very useful in allowing Zierer to build their own. Also I’ve always enjoyed Th13teen's outdoor section, it’s no masterpiece but I’ve never understood what is supposed to be so bad about it with the obvious exception of the trims of course.


Back to this ride and having watched the video a few more times and read comments from other sites I’ve realised that the issue I have is not with Zierer or the drop but as a Legoland fan. Simply put I can’t believe how little effort has gone into the drop zone. One ice themed TV (probably recycled from the numerous Ice Age attractions) and nothing else! I knew it wasn’t going to be a masterpiece in there but this has got to be a new low, even for Merlin. Part of me hopes it isn’t finished yet but I get the feeling this is the finished thing.

I think this ride suffers from the same issue that The Florida Dragon ride does. It’s got plenty of nicely themed buildings and models but occasionally they’ll let a huge bare patch show and as a result it feels rather sterile. Of course I can’t really say until I’ve ridden it but I just feel the classic Legoland charm is missing.

On the plus side the pine trees have been planted in interesting and very close positions to the track. They should really add to the ride section when they’ve grown fully and obscure most of the surroundings.

[Sam]

I think having a debate over the costs of these two rides (with the £6m figure floating around for Polar Xplorer and a number of other things vs. £15m for Th13teen) is pretty pointless.

It's been said many times that Merlin pretty much pluck these figures out of thin air for marketing purposes, particularly with saying Th13teen cost more than it did. Combine that with currency confusion as well as what the cost actually covers (theming? just hardware? marketing? the shop?) and I'd say those figures are very unreliable.

[BigAl]

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. What BigAl was saying is that the quality difference between the two systems is the same, but Zierer's is cheaper.

Before I'd seen the footage of the actual drop on Polar X-Plorer. But Verbolten may still be different so we should wait for a footage of the drop on that before we criticise Zierer. Considering Intamin is one of the big guns in the market, Zierer has done quite well in creating their own version of a free-fall drop coaster and I think Verbolten will be a ride that they can be proud of.

Edit: Just found a trip report from TPR...








(That kid on the front doesn't look too good :P )

[mrbrightside]

I think some of the 'awful' and 'dire' comments on here are a bit misplaced...

Yes the drop seems very small, unforceful and the drop room's theming / attempts to hide the mechanism are dire but this is fantastic for a small children's ride.

This was never meant to be anything more than, basically, a glorified kiddie coaster and it certainly delivers on that fact! The drop section could be improved - and hopefully will be much better on Verbolten - but for this ride, it is definitely solid for small children.

Note the raving reviews from TPR. I know they aren't always the most reliable source for a review but when they rode Th13teen they placed lots of criticism on the fact it wasn't thrilling but was marketed as being terrifying. They've ridden this though and thought it was wonderful, probably because it was marketed as a kiddie coaster and that is what Legoland have got.

Now it's up to Verbolten to prove Zierer can handle thrills.


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[Dylan]

The drop looks poor, but for a ride at a Legoland park this seems to fit really well. It doesn't need to be a forceful drop for small children.
The main coaster section looks really fun and the ride area is really nicely themed.
I wouldn't complain if something of this standard was installed at Windsor.

[AstroDan]

The theme indoor is terrible, though! It could have been so immersive.

Lego parks are some of the most expensive you can visit. Thirteen's crypt was a bit of a let down to many of us. But it looks positively sumptuous compared to this!

As I have said though. The coaster section looks perfect for a Lego park.

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[Dormiens-Dave]

Just to clarify something about theme quality, im fairly sure Merlin Studios dont work on the Lego Parks, certainly Candy Holland has nothing to do with them as John Wardley called her "Head of development for non-lego attractions".

Makes me wonder if Lego need to start using studios (never thought i would ever say that"

[mrbrightside]

It's amazing that any company placed in charge of theming a Lego attraction could fail so bad. It's LEGO for goodness sake... it has so much potential!

[Sam]

From Mark Boyce AKA Islander, live from Denmark:

"Polar X-Plorer: 1st outdoor section is very good - beats 13 by country mile. Fast, mediumly forceful, loads of airtime, excellent. Theming looks a lot better IRL. Drop: theming shockingly bad, and drop shorter than 13, but MUCH MUCH more forceful - really heavy mechanism leads to very forceful drop! Again beats 13, but theming crap. Section after drop exactly as bad as expected - perhaps a little faster, no fear of stalling. Penguins nice. Overall P.X. wins over 13 . Could you copy to TTF?"

VERY surprising. I trust Mark on this, but really am quite shocked!

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[Dormiens-Dave]

hmm interesting, a more forceful drop bodes well for Verbolten. Goes to show how crap Th13teen is if its so easily beaten like for like with another family ride that has a more suitable theme idea.

[Dingerbell]

Goes to show how crap Th13teen is

Thirteen is not crap, it was just marketed wrong.

Looking at the POV's I have to agree with Islander. The first half of the ride looks very good indeed for a family-thrill. However, the drop is poorly themed, and after the drop the excitement does not exist. If there was a faster launch after the drop, then maybe this section would be better- I'm not sure if this is possible however.

[Dormiens-Dave]

Goes to show how crap Th13teen is

Thirteen is not crap, it was just marketed wrong.

Forceless rollercoaster even for family, mixed theme success, drop potential for SFX missed and now it seems the drop itself isn't as good as the Zierer model.

In my oppinion thats fairly poor so i stick by my comment.