The Smiler - Speculation

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Nightfall
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Tom G wrote:First I've seen/heard of this Dark Forest launcher concept? Can anyone explain anymore? Is it the previously-abandoned Euro-Fighter Nathan was talking about?

"World's first vertical launch rollercoaster" would be a hook Alton Towers would furiously push as they so love to do. Not sure looking at the profile of the top of the vertical section that I can see this though.
Edit: Beaten to it but here's some more detail

The Dark Forest Launch coaster was one of the concepts for SW6 (although at the time they hadn't decided if the new ride would be a SW or just a few flats. The picture that dominoes posted of a Euro-fighter launching up Oblivions drop is the basic concept. I don't believe any proper plans were developed. The abandoned Euro-Fighter is something different and was always meant to go in the Black Hole tent. There was also a concept for an upside-down launched X-Car which apparently looked great but was taken down so quickly I never got to see it. This also used the Black Hole.

The Profile of the top would work for a vertical launch as it would have to go over the top at a low speed anyway so that it is at the right speed for the rest of the layout. See Wicked’s launch but imagine it starting on the vertical section. It would mean the launch is very short but quite interesting. Having really enjoyed the vertical launch on Mystery Castle (Launched tower ride) last summer I'd be all for it.
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bilvy man
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stupid question but has the bh tent already been taken down?
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Nemesis94
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POV anyone?



Warning: This was a very quick, very low-res video of my OLD version of SW7. It is quite jolty and rough in places, but most of these have been worked out in my later version. Hope you enjoy it.
See my No Limits recreation of SW7 (filmed by JAMMYD777) at
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SLC
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Already by just the NoLimits creations this looks like it could be one of the best looking rollercoasters in the entire country! Looking forward to this so much!
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With regards to lap bars, I think it would be incredible. That feeling of flying through inversion could be incredible if they get the design right...
Last edited by themealgang on Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bilvy man wrote: stupid question but has the bh tent already been taken down?
Not yet. They still need planning permission to demolish the structure.
Where the magic never ends.
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haydn!
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Is No-Limits realistic in terms of speed? As if so, I'd say it runs a little too fast with traditional Euro-Fighter cars suggesting heavier/longer cars may be used?
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Nightfall
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themealgang wrote: With regards to lap bars, would it even be possible to develop a lap bar system to cope with the level of intensity of those inversions? It looks like riders are going to throw around a hell of a lot more than inverting coasters that use lap bars only...
Obviously you haven’t experienced Blue Fire's last inversion ;)
A lap bar can withstand the same forces as an OTSR.
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Nightfall wrote:
themealgang wrote: With regards to lap bars, would it even be possible to develop a lap bar system to cope with the level of intensity of those inversions? It looks like riders are going to throw around a hell of a lot more than inverting coasters that use lap bars only...
Obviously you haven’t experienced Blue Fire's last inversion ;)
A lap bar can withstand the same forces as an OTSR.
Yes I have. My God- I felt like I was falling right out of my seat!
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Nightfall
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themealgang wrote:
Nightfall wrote:
themealgang wrote: With regards to lap bars, would it even be possible to develop a lap bar system to cope with the level of intensity of those inversions? It looks like riders are going to throw around a hell of a lot more than inverting coasters that use lap bars only...
Obviously you haven’t experienced Blue Fire's last inversion ;)
A lap bar can withstand the same forces as an OTSR.
Yes I have. My God- I felt like I was falling right out of my seat!
It does it every time :P So yeah if a lab bar can withstand that type of rapid force change it'll be fine for a ride like this.
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ryanyoxall wrote: With people saying that throughput will be an issue with eurofighter trains and saying that AT should use trains like maverick and fahrenheit, I thought I would look up the throughput of them two coasters and both of them are less than 1000. Maverick = 936, Fahrenheit = 850 and Saw's throughput is 1000 so eurofighter cars wouldn't be so bad espically if the use 3 or 4 rows.
Thank you for checking the throughput numbers. I've been arguing that this is probably an Intamin mainly due to capacity reasons, but what you're forgetting is that SW7 does not have many block sections... Saw and other Gerst Eurofighters do, as do most coasters with single cars (okay so a Eurofighter isn't a single car but youknowwhatimean). The lack of block sections is what makes me suspect this is a type of coaster with a higher train capacity than either of the Eurofighter car designs (6 or 8 seats). It's totally possible Gerstlauer have designed a longer train, though.

My other main reason for suspecting it's Intamin is the cost. I just cannot fathom how you'd get a Gerstlaurer, Maurer or Zierer to cost that much... Anyone have a theory as to why the budget is so high? (I've heard £20 mill but not checked it myself.)

Of course, on top of that logic, I'm just silently hoping it's Intamin... Or Maurer, if I can't have Intamin. If it's Gerstlaurer, the fact of the matter is that it will be no where near the quality it could be. With Saw so close by, I've come to realise that Gerstlaurer rides vary drastically hour to hour, more so than other companies. At it's best, Saw is a good ride, at it's worst... It's frankly **** terrible. The sensations from it vary so drastically I'd imagine if I were blind I'd not recognise it. Hearing people talk about Anubis, too... You get some who loved it and say it's smooth, and others who say it's absolutely dire and rough and horrid. I don't think it's just down to varying opinions, that's the ride varying drastically.

I rode Mystery Mine a few weeks back and it's not as bad as I was expecting. I was expecting it to be pretty damn awful, though. It fails to do anything Eurofighters do well and goes out of it's way to do everything they do badly, even messing up a perfectly good main drop by curving out to one side... And Eurofighters really, really cannot turn subtly. But it wasn't that rough at all. Part of me suspects that's down to usual Gerst varying depending on the temp, dampness... moon cycle? And part because Dollywood clearly look after their rides better than anyone else. Commenting on Mystery Mine in general though, it's fab. The theming standard is so outstanding high and it's an interesting and enjoyable ride with an outstanding finali, in case you cared what I think.

Anyway, I've gone on a tangent.

I think saying this is a confirmed Gerst Eurofighter is perhaps being a little bit over certain when there is plenty of evidence against it.

One other point I wanna bring up and ask you all to comment on is this... Why was there not so much as a squeak about X-Sector as a location for SW7? Or was there, and I missed the memo? I figure if anyone knew of such a rumour, it's someone here... Haha.

One final thing... OMG BATWING. <3! My favourite inversion.

Just my two pennies.
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It's about as long as the huge Eurofighter in Japan. I don't know the throughput on that, but if that gets by, then this should as well.

Considering the noise assesment says Saw is the same manufacturer, I can't see it being anything else. Plus the shaping, elements and support style are all pure Gerstlauer.
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I keep forgetting about Takabisha, and wow, that doesn't seem to have many block brakes either. That's my theory out the window.

Would love to see throughput stats for it, but it being in Japan... I don't think we ever will unless we contacted Gerstlaurer to ask.
Blaze

Then again, Fuji are infamous for their useless throughputs. :P
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HAJiME wrote: Anyone have a theory as to why the budget is so high? (I've heard £20 mill but not checked it myself.)
£20 million is the project budget not ride budget. The £20 million budget extends to theming, construction, marketing etc...
HAJiME wrote:One other point I wanna bring up and ask you all to comment on is this... Why was there not so much as a squeak about X-Sector as a location for SW7? Or was there, and I missed the memo? I figure if anyone knew of such a rumour, it's someone here... Haha.
X-Sector was not originally planned to be the site of SW7. There were heavy rumours of the Air car park and the Flume site hosting SW7 although it seems over the past few months plans have had to be changed at the last minute and the 'original SW7' has been postponed/shelved. In effect, X-Sector is Plan B.
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Also, I'd say the budget of £20million is also an indication of Alton Towers improved financial situation compared to 5+ years ago.
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James wrote:
HAJiME wrote:One other point I wanna bring up and ask you all to comment on is this... Why was there not so much as a squeak about X-Sector as a location for SW7? Or was there, and I missed the memo? I figure if anyone knew of such a rumour, it's someone here... Haha.
X-Sector was not originally planned to be the site of SW7. There were heavy rumours of the Air car park and the Flume site hosting SW7 although it seems over the past few months plans have had to be changed at the last minute and the 'original SW7' has been postponed/shelved. In effect, X-Sector is Plan B.
I find it hard to believe that this site hasn't been planned for a decent period:  the ride as it looks in the plans was clearly designed for nowhere other than the X Sector site - it uses the sloping ground of the site, and fits in with the other attractions and buildings around it.  Does it really only take a few months to design a ride like this?

It also seems like the obvious place for the ride - it's one of the 'thrill' areas of the park, it was the site of a previous rollercoaster (which makes granting planning permission easier) it's a site that has laid vacant for a long time, and an area that is overdue for attention.

AT will always prefer to fill gaps on the park with new attractions rather than expand the site further (as with the Air carpark) if only because it's cheaper and keeping the size of the park as small as possible is better for guests and for management of the park.

If AT felt they could fit a decent thrill coaster in X-Sector, and get planning permission for it, it would be the obvious first choice site for them.
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HAJiME wrote:
ryanyoxall wrote: With people saying that throughput will be an issue with eurofighter trains and saying that AT should use trains like maverick and fahrenheit, I thought I would look up the throughput of them two coasters and both of them are less than 1000. Maverick = 936, Fahrenheit = 850 and Saw's throughput is 1000 so eurofighter cars wouldn't be so bad espically if the use 3 or 4 rows.
Thank you for checking the throughput numbers. I've been arguing that this is probably an Intamin mainly due to capacity reasons, but what you're forgetting is that SW7 does not have many block sections... Saw and other Gerst Eurofighters do, as do most coasters with single cars (okay so a Eurofighter isn't a single car but youknowwhatimean). The lack of block sections is what makes me suspect this is a type of coaster with a higher train capacity than either of the Eurofighter car designs (6 or 8 seats). It's totally possible Gerstlauer have designed a longer train, though.

My other main reason for suspecting it's Intamin is the cost. I just cannot fathom how you'd get a Gerstlaurer, Maurer or Zierer to cost that much... Anyone have a theory as to why the budget is so high? (I've heard £20 mill but not checked it myself.)

Of course, on top of that logic, I'm just silently hoping it's Intamin... Or Maurer, if I can't have Intamin. If it's Gerstlaurer, the fact of the matter is that it will be no where near the quality it could be. With Saw so close by, I've come to realise that Gerstlaurer rides vary drastically hour to hour, more so than other companies. At it's best, Saw is a good ride, at it's worst... It's frankly jellying terrible. The sensations from it vary so drastically I'd imagine if I were blind I'd not recognise it. Hearing people talk about Anubis, too... You get some who loved it and say it's smooth, and others who say it's absolutely dire and rough and horrid. I don't think it's just down to varying opinions, that's the ride varying drastically.

I rode Mystery Mine a few weeks back and it's not as bad as I was expecting. I was expecting it to be pretty damn awful, though. It fails to do anything Eurofighters do well and goes out of it's way to do everything they do badly, even messing up a perfectly good main drop by curving out to one side... And Eurofighters really, really cannot turn subtly. But it wasn't that rough at all. Part of me suspects that's down to usual Gerst varying depending on the temp, dampness... moon cycle? And part because Dollywood clearly look after their rides better than anyone else. Commenting on Mystery Mine in general though, it's fab. The theming standard is so outstanding high and it's an interesting and enjoyable ride with an outstanding finali, in case you cared what I think.

Anyway, I've gone on a tangent.

I think saying this is a confirmed Gerst Eurofighter is perhaps being a little bit over certain when there is plenty of evidence against it.

One other point I wanna bring up and ask you all to comment on is this... Why was there not so much as a squeak about X-Sector as a location for SW7? Or was there, and I missed the memo? I figure if anyone knew of such a rumour, it's someone here... Haha.

One final thing... OMG BATWING. <3! My favourite inversion.

Just my two pennies.
Just my two pennies aswell.I know its speculation n discussion here but on the Noise report on planning app it clearly states its the same ride type/manufacturer as Saw

3. SOURCE NOISE LEVELS AND NOISE PROPAGATION
PROPOSED COASTER NOISE LEVELS
3.1 Noise from the planned new coaster was modelled based on a similar one located at
Thorpe Park. The Thorpe Park ride, “Saw” is the same type and manufacturer as the
proposed ride, including a “beyond vertical” drop. Third octave band measurements
were conducted on 2 November 2011 using a calibrated Norsonics type 118 sound
level meter, tripod mounted at a height of 1.2 m above ground level. Weather
conditions were suitable for noise measurements, with low wind speeds and
remaining dry. Measurements were taken at appropriate times to avoid nearby rides
influencing the measured noise levels, particularly Samurai and Colossus, which
were both operating during the measurement period
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James wrote:
HAJiME wrote:One other point I wanna bring up and ask you all to comment on is this... Why was there not so much as a squeak about X-Sector as a location for SW7? Or was there, and I missed the memo? I figure if anyone knew of such a rumour, it's someone here... Haha.
X-Sector was not originally planned to be the site of SW7. There were heavy rumours of the Air car park and the Flume site hosting SW7 although it seems over the past few months plans have had to be changed at the last minute and the 'original SW7' has been postponed/shelved. In effect, X-Sector is Plan B.
Actually, when HB Leisure took over responsibility of the games at Alton Towers several years ago. They were given pretty much free reign to develop the existing games, and add new ones across the park, with the exception of X-Sector. They were told they couldn't add anything for the first 3-4 years taking them up to approx 2010 - suggesting something was on the cards. Now, this would fit with rumours a few years back of an SW going into X-Factor. I think this coaster is Plan A and Thirteen was B!

Due to it's close proximity to a certain popular family home, development in X-Factor has been difficult. Alton Towers need to be 100% sure that anything they build there will not cause them problems with the locals. I don't think the rumoured Euro-Fighter for the Black Hole was ever scrapped, just delayed until the technology perfected and Alton Towers were happy they could deliver it within the restrictions the area presents.

I'd say a major coaster is in the pipeline for the Air carpark, or maybe the Flume site. But that's Plan A for another year.
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mezza wrote: I find it hard to believe that this site hasn't been planned for a decent period:  the ride as it looks in the plans was clearly designed for nowhere other than the X Sector site - it uses the sloping ground of the site, and fits in with the other attractions and buildings around it.  Does it really only take a few months to design a ride like this?
These plans were not (fully) designed within the past few months.

All I will say is, the Black Hole site was not in the original plans for 2013. It is now, and we're getting the thrill ride that the park so longs for. 
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