The Smiler - Speculation

[scruffy_]

I wanna know what the huge piece of theming is going to be! Must play a huge part in the ride surely because its so big?

[Skumfidus]

I am really finding this topic tedious and a bit ridiculous!

1.The planning documents submitted state that this ride is a Gerstlauer. Never in the history of my dealing with these applications has this been wrong. The 'beyond vertical drop' statement is obviously referring to SAW, not SW7

2.The track on the drawings might as well be 'Intamin Track'...Intamin don't design/make track, nor do Gerstlauer, nor do Mauer Sohne - an external contractor has a portfolio of tracks to offer clients, and not one type is exclusive to a manufacturer. The track shown on these diagrams gives us no indication of the ride manufacturer, and aren't even confirmed as they don't need planning permission!

3. Why is there even a need to question the fact that this is Gerstlauer, how on earth are Maurer Sohne better than Gerstlauer??

4. Where has this "this is actually SW8 and has been moved forward" statement come from? We have had no clues whatsoever on SW7 before this, everything was just enthusiast speculation. The idea that within a few weeks of these plans being released people are lamenting the loss of another 'better' rollercoaster baffles me!

It's quite clear that there will always be this stupid 'never satisfied' culture on enthusiast websites, and its infuriating! Could the TTF team maybe create a 'Absurd Manufacturer Speculation' thread and let the sane amongst us speculate on all of the obvious and correct information we have access to?

This ride looks amazing....and it's going to be built by Gerstlauer.

[James]

Could the TTF team maybe create a 'Absurd Manufacturer Speculation' thread and let the sane amongst us speculate on all of the obvious and correct information we have access to?

Yeah sure, we'll get on to that for you!

Naturally on a forum such as this there will always be a select few that will doubt what has been released and the views of other members. TowersTimes is lead to believe that SW7 is a Gerstlauer, and we would not confirm this unless we were sure of it - after all we would not want any false information posted on what is the busiest Alton Towers enthusiast website/forum.

I have to agree though, reading this topic is getting a bit tedious. By the time we end up discussing another aspect of the ride someone comes along and takes us back to square one. It's rather frustrating to read. However this is a discussion forum and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I can see how people doubt it's a Gerstlauer, although everything categorically points towards this being a Gerstlauer.

[Skumfidus]

Naturally on a forum such as this there will always be a select few that will doubt what has been released and the views of other members.

Problem I have here is that it seems to be a majority! People are of course entitled to their own opinion, but I find it hard to fathom how so many people can have the exact same opinion when that opinion flies in the face of reality! It's quite scary!

Is the shape of the track the only thing that makes people believe this isn't a Gerstlauer, or am I missing something?

[swfcjambo]

I am really finding this topic tedious and a bit ridiculous!

But I bet you, me and hundreds of others have read (and will continue to read) every single post, on a almost daily basis!

[Skumfidus]

I am really finding this topic tedious and a bit ridiculous!

But I bet you, me and hundreds of others have read (and will continue to read) every single post, on a almost daily basis!

Oh god yes, I still check it all the time, and hidden beneath all the craziness is some real, interesting speculation!

For example, the duelling aspect really intrigues me. On the POVs it is clear that there are going to be duelling points along the ride, the question is, are they for the riders or the spectators? Will they have a system that ensures they line up every time?

Regarding the point about dispatching - obviously the first dispatch is not a problem, first train of a double dispatch would complete first section, then second train would start on lift as first train starts the second lift. As to the first train of the next dispatch lining up with the second train of the first dispatch, maybe the second lift can hold until the next dispatch has taken place? It's going to be a very advanced system, and will be deserving of the worlds first title!

If the system is double dispatched, I really hope there is something for the riders to look at while they wait, it looks like it will be quite a long time before they can move!

[Dylan]

The problem here is that until Alton Towers or Gerstlauer categorically state that Gerstlauer are manufacturing this coaster, people are going to speculate. Had the planning application included the name Gerstlauer, things would be different.

We have seen in recent years, a LOT of coaster manufacturers redevelop their track type. Saw's track looked very much like Intamin tri-rail track. The new Intamin track is completely different to any other track type, and doesn't look at all.......Intamin!

Unless a coaster is B&M, I think we will struggle to determine it from track design on the plans alone as all manufacturers are changing their styles, so we need to assume that its Gerstlauer as has been stated (and is confirmed in the topic of the title).

[Skumfidus]

The problem here is that until Alton Towers or Gerstlauer categorically state that Gerstlauer are manufacturing this coaster, people are going to speculate. Had the planning application included the name Gerstlauer, things would be different.

But they have! The planning application states that this ride is from the same manufacturer as Saw!

Of all the documents relating to this ride, the noise document is the most important, this area of the park is responsible for so many noise complaints that their research has to be accurate. They don't want to fool anyone, they want to know for themselves that this ride won't mean more court cases and more unhappiness from locals!

They people responsible for the noise document have already shown us that if they use a coaster that is of a different manufacturer and type they can show this on the document (Thirteen for example), they have not done that here, they have categorically confirmed that in order to predict the noise that will emanate from this ride, they have conducted tests on a ride by the same manufacturer and of the same type!

[Dylan]

The problem here is that until Alton Towers or Gerstlauer categorically state that Gerstlauer are manufacturing this coaster, people are going to speculate. Had the planning application included the name Gerstlauer, things would be different.

But they have! The planning application states that this ride is from the same manufacturer as Saw!

Yes, but the haven't named Gerstlauer. That was the point I was trying to make.

With regards to the duelling aspect being discussed, I guess it very much depends on whether these are standard 6 or 8 seat Eurofighter cars, or a new longer train design.
If there are multiple cars on the track, I am personally seeing the area underneath the maintenance bay (before the first lift) as a block section for two trains once they have left the platform, so you could (in theory) have six cars on the track running quite smoothly as long as they were dispatching quickly.

[Skumfidus]

That's a good point, I'm guessing by having a few trains idle before the lift at all times it allows a bit of a buffer to soak up any longer dispatch times in the station.

Whilst working on Nemesis, I really saw how random and sporadic loading times can be - it was always our aim on the platform to ensure the train was dispatched before the next train was stopped outside of the station (or stacked), meaning it would never stop on the brake run and would roll smoothly into the station....this was very very hard to do on an average day regardless of how fast we ran or how loud and clear we were with loading instructions. The main barrier is the baggage cage, it takes a long time for people to get ready to sit down. Another problem was seatbelts, guests frequently forgot them or couldn't work them out.

To combat this, any ride that relied on good, fast dispatching would need to have a baggage store before the loading platform (like Stealth, Saw and Thirteen) and would also need a very easy to use harness without a seatbelt!

From the POV, it appears that there would need to be a dispatch every 45 seconds or so, or of course every 90 seconds with dual loading....Nemesis would really only get about 1 dispatch every 2 minutes (based on a common throughput of 1000 in an hour (I'm pretty sure that was the realistic throughput, I remember the Op being quite happy if we hit it), and 32 people per train = 31 dispatches per hour)......that's some feat!

Could we even see more than dual loading? Perhaps if the trains were very close to one another in the station you could load 4 at a time and have 32 people loaded at once ala Nemesis, you dispatch them together and then they queue for the lift (a bit like the system used for Test Track at Epcot...in fact quite a few Disney rides have this 'queueing' system)

[sibic]

I am really finding this topic tedious and a bit ridiculous!

1.The planning documents submitted state that this ride is a Gerstlauer. Never in the history of my dealing with these applications has this been wrong. The 'beyond vertical drop' statement is obviously referring to SAW, not SW7

2.The track on the drawings might as well be 'Intamin Track'...Intamin don't design/make track, nor do Gerstlauer, nor do Mauer Sohne - an external contractor has a portfolio of tracks to offer clients, and not one type is exclusive to a manufacturer. The track shown on these diagrams gives us no indication of the ride manufacturer, and aren't even confirmed as they don't need planning permission!

3. Why is there even a need to question the fact that this is Gerstlauer, how on earth are Maurer Sohne better than Gerstlauer??

This ride looks amazing....and it's going to be built by Gerstlauer.

3 fold some people do not like euro fighters (bit ruff low thought put. ect) and Gerstlauer have never used this track before.  i think that's the problem if it was tri-rail then a lot of people would say yep euro Gerstlauer no prob.  Last problem no visible  beyond vertical drop which is the hall mark of a euro.

for the first problem i hope this new ride will cure some of this. their will all ways be people who will dislike a ride can't be helped.

second problem is that this track dose not look like the track that Gerstlauer have used in the pasted well your right it dose not but Gerstlauer uses the same track maker as a load of other company's including intamin (note the same tri-rail track used), also they make the track for Mauer Sohne x cars so  Gerstlauer have easy access to it as well. link to track maker  http://www.stakotra.sk

two possible reasons 1 their is a trade mark ride with a vertical drop right next door or it not a euro fighter but in the same family of rides (maybe a Gerstlauer lunch coaster)

just a thought could it be the first euro fighter xl (bigger cars)

[seanyboyuk]

I think the park will stick to SAWs station concept but there might be another holding point for more trains in the dark section of the ride?

[bilvy man]

what about a wingerider, it could be a worlds first vertical lifted wingrider, how brilliant would that be!

[adsyrah]

what about a wingerider, it could be a worlds first vertical lifted wingrider, how brilliant would that be!

As good (or bad!) as that might sound, that won't be the concept for SW7.

The station exit and return in the plan designs show quite narrow holes in and out of the building. Not enough room for a wingrider. 

[.Will]

what about a wingerider, it could be a worlds first vertical lifted wingrider, how brilliant would that be!

Doubt it, if you look at the plans and the recreation there isn't the clearence for a wingrider.

As well as this Gerstlauer don't do wingriders, I'd like to see a new shuttle though maybe something more train-like like Fahrenheit.

[Nemesis94]

Whilst we are talking about cars/trains, I've just had a thought. If this ride does end up with Eurofighter cars, that will mean both coasters in X-Sector just have single car trains. From a personal viewpoint, I think it would be great if SW7's cars had a similar design to Oblivions, and were made to look like a mini Oblivion cars. Just with a different logo and maybe a different colour combo (Oblivion is Black and Orange, Submission is Black and Blue, Enterprise is Black and Green. Hmmm Black and Yellow?)

[Blaze]

what about a wingerider, it could be a worlds first vertical lifted wingrider, how brilliant would that be!

Doubt it, if you look at the plans and the recreation there isn't the clearence for a wingrider.

As well as this Gerstlauer don't do wingriders, I'd like to see a new shuttle though maybe something more train-like like Fahrenheit.

As well as there being a heartline well above the track and the direction changes too sharp for a wingrider.

[LordOfDarkness]

Still think this will be a zierer or a Vekoma prototype... Confident it won't be a Gerstlauer...

[Blaze]

What is so hard about understanding that it says Saw is the same manufacturer. Just because it doesn't state Gerstlauer by name, it doesn't change the fact that it says this ride will have the same manufacturer as Saw. It's so simple.

[James6]

Still struggling understand why people don't believe this is a Gerstlauer??