The Smiler - Speculation

[Blaze]

sorry to say this but the track looks like xcar track i it no euro fighter track we know of so maybe we need to remove confirmed unless its a prototype but their is not any talk to back this up and i can not believe that a euro train  will fit a xcar. will have to see what is on the box

It's more like Intamin track. We know they've started making this sort of track, so it's not hard to assume Gerstlauer are doing it as well, afterall, they're fabricated by the same people. Also, the supports have overhangs, which X-cars tend not to have.

I can understand people not wanting this to be a Gerstlauer, but not why they would want it to be an X-Car. It's a Gerstlauer. It just is.

[Dormiens-Dave]

sorry to say this but the track looks like xcar track i it no euro fighter track we know of so maybe we need to remove confirmed unless its a prototype but their is not any talk to back this up and i can not believe that a euro train  will fit a xcar. will have to see what is on the box

Its actually also nothing like x-car track if you compare the two, its closest resemblance to current track is new Vekoma. But i'm happy its a new Gerstlaur style.

[Nemesis94]

A quick note on the POV video. I got to 65% in the upload and found an error, with the vertical lift track slightly bowed. New video is in the works and all being well should be online this time tomorrow. Many thanks again to JAMMY777 for his help with this. PS It's staying as a eurofighter until we have definate confirmation otherwise.

[Coaster_Dude]

The planning documents say Gerstlauer, I think that's more than enough confirmation. We're arguing between a document which essentially says 'the manufacturer is Gerstlauer' and peoples opinion on what company the track diagram most resembles.

[Big Dave]

Whoever makes it, it will still look impressive. For Merlin's sake though, I hope its not an X-car! Now can we just move on for Wardley's sake! 

[mezza]

I'm sure it's a Gerstlauer:

• The plans say it's the same manufacturer and type as Saw
• The track layout looks very like a Gerst Euro-Fighter, particularly something like Takabisha
• The forum mods here are all sure it's a Gerst, and that's good enough for me.

"But if it's a Gerstlauer, why does the track look different on the plans?"

Well maybe:

• The plans don't need to show the track at all.  Certainly the precise design of the track doesn't need to be accurate.  The person who drew the plans is an architect, not a rollercoaster designer.
• Gerstlauer track has changed a number of times over the years.  Maybe this is a new type of track.
• Certainly, the track does not look exactly like any current rollercoaster track.  So really, the track shown on the plans doesn't tell us anything about the manufacturer.

"But the noise report says there's a beyond vertical drop on the ride, and there doesn't seem to be one, so the noise report can't be trusted"

• Maybe the beyond vertical drop is in the indoor section (thoretically possible with some excavation)
• Maybe the ride was going to feature a beyond vertical drop, but plans were changed at the last minute (perhaps because AT felt it would detract too much from Oblivion, or simply that the ride would be better/more popular without it)

[ponder]

In an attempt to move the discussion on a bit...

Considering the concerns about Eurofighter throughput, lack of MCBR etc, and with the plans suggesting a different type of track. On the assumption that it is a Gertslauer, could we be seeing new / different trains from them? Not necessarily a bigger Eurofighter car, or 2 cars joined together, but a whole new train type for them. They've shown that they're prepared to adapt and evolve both the designs of their coasters and trains recently, with the 6 passenger cars, so is it unreasonable to think that, perhaps with Merlin / Alton's guidance / request, that they're designing new, higher capacity trains?

[Javs]

The problem we have, is that no one can say 100 percent who is making this coaster at the moment. We have two pieces of hard evidence, the drawings, which show a coaster track of a familiar but new style of track. And we have the noise planning document. Out of those two documents, the drawings are least likely to be factually incorrect. Until a press release announces the manufacturer, we really won't know for sure.

[Dylan]

In an attempt to move the discussion on a bit...

Considering the concerns about Eurofighter throughput, lack of MCBR etc, and with the plans suggesting a different type of track. On the assumption that it is a Gertslauer, could we be seeing new / different trains from them? Not necessarily a bigger Eurofighter car, or 2 cars joined together, but a whole new train type for them. They've shown that they're prepared to adapt and evolve both the designs of their coasters and trains recently, with the 6 passenger cars, so is it unreasonable to think that, perhaps with Merlin / Alton's guidance / request, that they're designing new, higher capacity trains?

I'm guessing you are probably right here ponder. I would assume that part of the reason of designing this with a new style track would be to accommodate longer trains. There just wouldn't be decent throughput otherwise.

[swfcjambo]

My opinion (for what it's worth):

1) The planning application states Gerstlauer as the manufacturer. Therefore it will be!
2) The track has not been seen before, therefore Gersty have/are designing a new style track.
3) The new track will have new trains to give the required throughput.
4) There may be an internal "beyond vertical" drop.

[Lotte]

Can someone point me to the plans which show the coaster track.
Thnaks

[adsyrah]

I hate to moan, but this topic is getting really tedious!

Bottom line is, noone knows for certain who's building the ride! There's no point bickering about it as people are just going round and round in circles.

The layout looks amazing, we may have a world first to look forward to and we'll soon have a glimpse at the station building designs.

Can someone point me to the plans which show the coaster track.

You can view them here. Go to the "Associated Documents" tab - all the plans are there.

[Mi-Nigle]

I'm actually not expecting anything inside the station building coaster wise. I mean it's big, but not enough to fit worthwhile elements into I don't think. I know they could dig down but I'm highly doubtful of that.

I'd prefer to see it comprise of themed queue line, think Expedition Everest with an X-Sector twist. Maybe even something in the way of a pre-show.

Just had a thought while typing this, a pre-show could be a way of getting guests ready in batches for boarding, so that trains can be dispatched quicker and in time with the synced lift hills.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

[Stern John]

I'm pretty sure we are getting a mental new rollercoaster regardless of manufacturer!
I think what's going to decide how good this ride is will be OTSR's or lapbars, can't we have a debate about that instead?

[Boz]

The problem we have, is that no one can say 100 percent who is making this coaster at the moment. We have two pieces of hard evidence, the drawings, which show a coaster track of a familiar but new style of track. And we have the noise planning document. Out of those two documents, the drawings are least likely to be factually incorrect. Until a press release announces the manufacturer, we really won't know for sure.

actually the plans do state the the drawings have been submitted purely for completeness, so are actually MORE likely to be false. or rather i should say they are more likely to be indicative of the final layout.
the layout may be right, but the track style might be completely different.
i'm of the mind that when you state on a legal document that the manufacturer of the ride will be the SAME as another, you will be in for a world of legal problems when it turns out to be otherwise.

so how about those theming elements, A is looking pretty damn huge any ideas?

[Tom G]

The problem we have, is that no one can say 100 percent who is making this coaster at the moment. We have two pieces of hard evidence, the drawings, which show a coaster track of a familiar but new style of track. And we have the noise planning document. Out of those two documents, the drawings are least likely to be factually incorrect. Until a press release announces the manufacturer, we really won't know for sure.

I have to quetsion why you think a drawing to give an impression of a structure is more likely to be accurate than a planning document carried out by a third party - who will be concious of pleasing their client and are unlikely to make specific claims without advice.

The drawings provided are not technical construction drawings, the ride will not be manufactuered to the dimensions indicated on them (there isn't any).

In any event, why is a change of track design deemed so unlikely?

[adsyrah]

so how about those theming elements, A is looking pretty damn huge any ideas?

This is a bit of a cliche, but as this looks likely to be a deulling coaster then the theme will play on this. So something to do with weapons / war comes to mind. Maybe the themeing is some kind of crashed miltary plane or something that's been destroyed / blown up due to the fight that's ensuing between the two coaster cars.

[Boz]

or maybe trains themed as fighters going up against an alien mothership that would be awesome 8)

[Morgano]

I can give you one good reason why the second lift will not be a rolling launch (but would still leave a vertical launch open) is the timing. The coaster is 100% duelling as proved by the nolimits recreations, therefore it would be impossible to ensure the coaster on the first lift hill is synced with the second. For example a disabled person could take significantly longer to load and therefore there would be no sync if the first car continued its journey. It's almost certainly going to be a hold, think SAW before it's vertical lift, sometimes you go straight away and other times you have to wait for the clearance between the car in front to increase.

The 2nd lift will definitely hold the car to sync the lifts, however this still leaves a possibility that you could have a vertical launch that would sync. I'm not so hot on the idea though and think a station launch followed by a vertical lift would be more appealing.

[merm]

Obviously there is a break run before the second lift. The two halfs are about as long as the ones on the Japanese one I can't spell the name of. It's likely an X-Car would not have a markably better throughput, just a higher mortality rate.

Sorry obviously there will be one there but with such a small footprint I was just trying to explain  the ride throughput will be not massive eg...not a 1000 as someone as said and i have also heard  John Wardley  says he looks for in a new ride a minimum of a 1000( thirteen on opening day ran at over 1200)