The advantages and disadvantages of SW's

General discussion regarding the UK's No.1 Theme Park. Talk about anything and everything Alton Towers here.

What do you think Alton Towers should do?

Continue with SW's
37
74%
Make rides without SW's
3
6%
Use rides with small gimmicks such as " first phsycoaster"
3
6%
Make rides without gimmicks and SW's
7
14%
 
Total votes: 50
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Altontowersbarlow
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I made this topic to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of Secret Weapon Coasters (SW'S) at Alton Towers. Over the years Alton Towers have given us some amazing SW's and they have opened up ground-breaking technology to the market.

What advantages are there of using SW's?
.They are extremely marketable and popular with the public.
.They usually get wide publicity.
.They are different from other coasters and bring something different to the market.
.The special element causes speculation and hype around the ride.

The above points add to the SW's impact on the park and the theme park market along with ensuring people flock to experience something new. It would seem difficult to pick out disadvantages from using these amazing SW roller coasters and there are certainly only a few.

What disadvantages are there of using SW's?
.Some of the complex systems are difficult to maintain.
.They may have to limit parts of the ride because of the use of new technology.
.Other parks adapt the SW's and make the ride better after they learn from Alton's experiences of the ride.

Although there are only a few problems to pick from, the issue that stands out for me is that other parks adapting SW's. Although Alton's SW's are new and fresh at the time bringing new and exciting experiences, other parks with a bigger budget can quickly snap up the idea and create an improved coaster to go along with the special element (Th13teen=Verbolten). The disadvantage with this happening is after two or three parks have installed this technology and improved it, along with the the coaster that surrounds it, Alton are still left with a world's first which however is overshadowed by the newer and improved version of their ride.

Rides that have been made bigger and better by other parks
Air-Manta
Th13teen-Verbolten
Oblivion-SheiKra
Nemesis-OzIris (bigger anyway ;))

By comparing these advantages and disadvantages I am confident that Alton's rides are still world class rides but could they benefit by not using the SW system in order to ensure their rides are not beaten or hindered? I am also happy to keep the SW concept going. I also think this indicates that Alton are leading in theme park technology and therefore rival parks will copy as part of market competition.

What do you think? Should Alton keep the SW system or continue building the amazing standard of rides they already produce but without the special elements? Reply below if you have an opinion! :)
Last edited by Altontowersbarlow on Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rhino18
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Altontowersbarlow wrote: . Other parks adapt the SW's and make the ride better after they learn from Alton's experiences of the ride.
May I ask, how is that a disadvantage? Secret Weapon branding is just used to hype up their ride. It's a new coaster - good right?
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Altontowersbarlow
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rhino18 wrote:
Altontowersbarlow wrote: . Other parks adapt the SW's and make the ride better after they learn from Alton's experiences of the ride.
May I ask, how is that a disadvantage? Secret Weapon branding is just used to hype up their ride. It's a new coaster - good right?
I completely understand what you are saying however this can lead to Alton's rides being overshadowed by the newer versions :)
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rhino18
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^It doesn't really matter though. It's better attaining the right to brand a ride as a world's first than to say, for example, 'world's first flying coaster that is bigger than Alton Towers' one'.  :)
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Altontowersbarlow
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:lol: Brilliant point. It is not a major issue but something that could maybe make the public (who have been to other parks and are unaware of the world's first) think Alton's rides are not as good as elsewhere. :) Another thing I forgot to add is Alton need to put rights on their world's first as Busch Gardens claimed that they had the only free-fall drop in the world two years after Alton opened Th13teen. I understand this was a mistake however false advertising all the same. :)
Last edited by Altontowersbarlow on Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rhino18
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^Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that Busch were forced to change it after backlash from Blackstone (the company who own Merlin).
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Altontowersbarlow
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I was unaware of this, however maybe prevention would be a better option :)
Last edited by Altontowersbarlow on Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TomL
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They do currently prevent rides from being copied etc. When they sign contracts with the manufacturers they sometimes say they can't make another for a certain amount of time. I think that was the case with Oblivion... They also introduce trademarks on names and taglines like they did with 'The Smiler' which can keep other parks from marketing their coasters in a similar way to Alton Towers'. Merlin have a fully advanced legal team too!
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Themeparksandy1981
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The advantage of SW is having a world first coaster that has been built in the Midlands. Just look how many extra guests it gets thought the gates not just from the UK, but also from all around the world.

SW3: Nemesis, is a top coaster and was always in the top 10 of coasters in the whole world. Not sure where it is ranked now but it still is the no.1 coaster in the UK. Nemesis also is the only coaster that I dont know why it's classed as a world first.

SW4: Oblivion, is still a world class coaster and I know there's been more built world wide. I have been on the 1 in Tampa and after the 2 drops I feel it's just a basic coaster which I feel Oblivion gives a bigger punch.

SW5: Air, I never liked this ride and I feel it's so overhyped. I felt the new beast was a better coaster it replaced. I only go on it if the queue is no more than 15 mins.

SW6: 13, I feel every year it's been here it's got better and better. First time I thought is that it I queued 90 mins for that, but last year I thought the outdoor section felt quicker, the drop felt more forceful and the backwards section felt quicker. I felt it was starting to feel like a family thrill coaster.

SW7: The Smiler, I have only been on it once in June and I just thought it was a good coaster that was better than Air & 13, but not on the same level as Oblivion or Nemesis.

The only Disadvantage of these coasters is as they're world beaters I think it's going to be hard for the managers to decide which 1 to remove first. As we all, and other guests have their fave SW and will be sad to see any of them go as they put Alton Towers on the world map.
Last edited by Themeparksandy1981 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Alton Towers have got themselves into this scenario where each new coaster must have something special (and most likely world first) now, which is great for advertisement with a gimmick and attracting people, but sometimes more goes into the various elements which make it so 'special' that the overall ride, length wise (bar The Smiler), theming (bar The Smiler) and other features in the ride leave a lot left to be desired - and then the special feature of the ride get's copied/changed in another country and made so much better So we're left with a average ride, and an outdated and beaten feature.

I know it would leave less to advertise and talk about the special element, I would just love a good solid ride with lots of airtime and an inversion or two - that in turn would give a great ride experience (and hopefully be more reliable) and would help in the long run with the success of the ride. Just like we see Nemesis now, no gimmicks, just a great ride.
Last edited by DeanGaryCox on Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Luviico
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Personally I love the air of mystery which goes hand in hand with SW's. The speculation with the lead up to opening day makes everything more fun and exciting, not just for enthusiasts but for the GP. I think everyone would prefer to wonder right to the last second rather than to be told at the start what is going to happen and with SW's you know that there is going to be a special world first element to the ride. AT also work wonders with their marketing (usually) some of their marketing for the smiler could of been done A LOT better but still, the whole SW package works wonders and grabs people's attention. To keep their top spot Alton have to keep on presenting new innovative ideas. I know at the beginning they didn't intend the SW name to become what it means today but it has, therefore I think they should carry on with it as it hasn't failed yet  :D
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Altontowersbarlow wrote: :lol: Brilliant point. It is not a major issue but something that could maybe make the public (who have been to other parks and are unaware of the world's first) think Alton's rides are not as good as elsewhere. :) Another thing I forgot to add is Alton need to put rights on their world's first as Busch Gardens claimed that they had the only free-fall drop in the world two years after Alton opened Th13teen. I understand this was a mistake however false advertising all the same. :)
I would imagine the majority of Alton Tower visitors are people who rarely go overseas to visit Theme Parks.

America is known amoungst the general public of having "Massive Rides", but not every family are willing to pay for air tickets and admission tickets to go to a Theme Park when they could go to Alton Towers.

Alton Towers SWs will always be 'smaller scale' than the future developments because of how young the technology, the money used for development, but also building restrictions.

This isn't necessarily bad. With Nemesis you have a small-but brutally intense Suspended Coaster Experience.
Air is an approachable "big coaster" that appeals to family. Some people get intimidated by speed (RITA). But Air offers a "gentle appearing" thrill experience.
Oblivion completely utilises Alton Tower's amazing use of Theme design to make the one drop the focal point.

This is probably why AT tends to emphasise theming and/or narrative to make the coaster a unique experience. Nemesis might be one of the smallest B&M Inverted Coasters in the world, but its the only one that twists around a giant monster amongst rivers of beetroot pink.

I like SWs as a design point of view.
Last edited by scw55 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tom.B

I think that secret weapons are great, if they have a specific element (take Thirteen and Air for example). However, rides such as The Smiler (where the reason it's 'World Beating' is because it has 14 inversions), it shouldn't be classed as a secret weapon, as it has no SECRET WEAPON, if you know what I mean. :)
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scw55
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Tom.B wrote: I think that secret weapons are great, if they have a specific element (take Thirteen and Air for example). However, rides such as The Smiler (where the reason it's 'World Beating' is because it has 14 inversions), it shouldn't be classed as a secret weapon, as it has no SECRET WEAPON, if you know what I mean. :)
Nemesis shouldn't be a secret weapon with that logic. Nemesis was Europe's first B&M Inverted Coaster.

Smiler was the first 16 seater "Euro-fighter" and the only coaster that can self-duel.
Last edited by scw55 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dom
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It does give a bit of mystery, I admit, but tbh I'm kind of bored with the SW thing now. It's been done now. Move on to something new.
Last edited by Dom on Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tom.B

Pizzazz wrote: It does give a bit of mystery, I admit, but tbh I'm kind of bored with the SW thing now. It's been done now. Move on to something new.
I understand what you're saying but if they do 'move on to something new', it will just be a new name for Secret Weapon IMO. I like it how they have special 'elements', as it makes AT unique from other parks such as Drayton, where they just go for a random coaster. :)
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SW's- yes, they can be good. Publicity, drawing the crowds, creating and era of excitement and mystery. But for me, I just find them too gimmicky.
The reason you ride a coaster shouldn't be because of it's 'worlds first' ranking or 'SW'. It should be because it genuinely looks good, intriguing, interesting and enjoyable. I think it would be more beneficial for Alton Towers to invest in the types of coasters we know and love. tried and tested so that they can become the best of their kind- not because they're the worlds first or they have a secret weapon. Simply because they're amazing and are thought of as the best. Weather it be the best in the UK, Europe or the world I really think towers need an 'old faithful' sort of design for a coaster instead of carrying on with the gimmicky SW's. This, incorporating a good design and proper theming could be an absolute winner for Alton Towers. The majority of the general public don't even know about the whole 'SW' trend- so trying something without and 'SW' title would hardly be a major issue and I believe would benefit the park.
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Themeparksandy1981
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With the Smiler what happens when a park builds a coaster with 15 inversions?
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Danny
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Themeparksandy1981 wrote: With the Smiler what happens when a park builds a coaster with 15 inversions?
Well it will still be the worlds first 14 looping roller coaster, as they tag it.
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BenBowser
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I don't mind if they continue to to use the SW tag. As long as Wardley has some input. After all, it's his code.
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