November 25th 2012 : Residents to oppose Alton's Lodge Plans

[Ryan.]

It seems theres always a group of NIMBYs somewhere that want to whine about new developments no matter how inoffensive and even benefitial they may be. The resort needs to expand it's business in order to grow and improve, the only real way to increase investment in rides/themeing is to attract more paying guests, the best way of attracting more guests (and the most sustainable way) is to build more accomodation. So anyone advocating they don't build any more hotels I assume is happy to see the park remain as it is forever.

I imagine though there is a certain number of people in the local area that want nothing more than for the resort to stagnate, lose it's competitiveness and subsequently close because of some selfish ideals; well quite frankly, there is a lot of countryside out there but only one resort of this scale in the UK, so I suggest they just deal with the minor inconvenience and accept they live next to a large national attraction which is of great benefit to the local economy (and that I guarantee has been around in some form or another longer than they have) or move. Simple.

/rant

[bensaund]

Traffic... has anyone tried to drive through Windsor when people arrive or leave Legoland.... I have for the last 15+ years and its hell!

Alton is nowhere near as bad, in fact in my experience I have never had any traffic issues, where as  Chessington and Legoland have very bad traffic problems. Thorpe on the other hand have no issues outside the park, the traffic congestion always seems to be inside the car park with people trying to get out through the barriers at the end of the day.

Do we know when a decision will be made on this and if the moaning residents will get their way or not?

[homer22422]

It will actually be less traffic because if you are staying at the resort there will be less people going home on the same day.
I think the residents just like to complain.
P.S If the residents complain so much that they have to close down the park I wont be helping them If they're local economy goes down hill.
Don't be like the ropers and don't complain.   

[Ryan.]

Do we know when a decision will be made on this and if the moaning residents will get their way or not?

Target determination date is stated as 15/01/2013 in the planning documents. I'm in no position to comment on whether or not the residents will be successful in stopping the development getting permission, but hopefully the council will acknowledge that the positives outweigh the negatives on this.

I suspect these people's concerns are largely unsubstantiated, much like the residents who opposed the SW7 plans, stating that it would be visible from certain vantage points even when the planning documents clearly indicated it wouldn't be, obviously they weren't successful in stopping that so hopefully the same will happen here. Also this development is part of the resort's 10 year development plan afterall, so it's not as if they haven't already been made aware of it.

[tallicay2k]

They shall not pass!!

[scw55]

Creating jobs will defend the plans well.

Hey, at least they're not building a great big stinking Coal Power Plant. Or sewage treatment works. There are much worse things that could be built in the area that provides jobs than some pitiful traffic affecting holiday lodges.

[Delta79]

Alton Tower should move to Shropshire and sell the land to a nuclear waste processing company That would teach them for being short sighted.

[stu1980]

thing is you cant win with some people.

Merlin wanna build they kick off

Merlin say we are shutting the park down fully never to reopen (yea we no its not gonna happen) people kick off

they just cant win

[Boz]

I can understand the anger and frustration of some of the residents, but in all fairness, they are directing it at the wrong people.
Towers have made plans to build the bypass, and even foot a large cost of the bill. the parties causing the problems are JCB and the local councils.
Trying to screw up Towers developments are not going to help. If they direct their anger at the parties actually causing the problems then they might actually get some where. But as is all too common, people generally react like this from a place of ignorance and misguided advice, which is proven by their actions.
if Towers had turned round and said "no bypass ain't gonna happen, we don't want one and we don' care", then I could completely support them, but that isn't what's happening, therefore I have no sympathy to their cause.

[Nightfall]

I think it's worth pointing out that most residents do not have a problem with these plans. The interesting thing is that when the Fireworks were cancelled due to "resident’s complaining" it was actually the residents that were most supportive of their return in 2010. Only a small group were against them in the first place.

The Whiston Action Group is nearly always against any plans Alton put into place as they exist to try and protect the Churnet Valley. Pointing out flaws and issues is what they do.
A similar complaint was submitted in the full approval details of SW7’s application and I believe it was WAG that brought it up then as well.

But I think there is confusion between this complaint and the previous one. Having read the full article the traffic issues barely gets mentioned at all although they did make a full article based on this back in March (4 days before SW7 was approved). Neither is there a mention of B&B owners being put out of business which I believe will be a non-issue as I can’t imagine these cabins being a budget option.

Anyway here’s a link to the full article for anyone that wants to know exactly what their issues are:
http://www.whiston-action-group.co.uk/category/alton-towers/

It’s a long read so I’ve tried to summarise it below:

The key points:
+ An approved application already exists for a Splash Landing Expansion (7th December 2006) so they should not be seeking an alternative development while this remains active as the parks accommodation demand can already be fulfilled.
+ A former application was made in 1988 for a similar chalet development. It was originally approved but was withdrawn when Tussauds took over as one of the conditions of the approval of the Alton Towers Hotel.
+ The site of this development might be blocking where the access road will go if it is ever built.
+ The plans were apparently released without community consultation first which prevented them from giving earlier feedback as it sounds like they normally do.
+ They also add that the 24hr JCB Vehicle Testing Grounds could cause discomfort for Alton’s customers. They actually go as far to suggest that JCB might have to add the same restrictions to their site as Alton’s rides already have in place which they call “an unacceptable business restriction” for a major UK manufacturer.

There are then two other points which aren’t quite as clear cut:
+ Apparently the Lodges don’t fit with the area’s long term development plan. This is not referring to the plan produced back in 2009 but a much older agreement called the Supplementary Planning Guide (SPG) from 1988 which is what the official Churnet Valley Masterplan is based on.  As a result Alton’s current plan apparently does not line up with their Masterplan proposal for the area as a whole and so they want ALL further development to stop until a new SPG is made. Sounds a bit extreme to me.
+ Apparently the new development is not in keeping with the historic landscape of the Estate and its trees and woodlands, although they don’t specify why

[Boz]

Thanks Nightfall, I only read the press release, which only sited traffic concerns.
That said, IMO all of those points are just picky for no reason, other than to be picky. Not one of those points (with the exception of the potential access road blockage, which is crap anyway), are really of any concern to Mr and Mrs average Joe. I honestly cannot see a single thing that would really bother me in my day to day life if I was in there position.
Quite frankly that report actually makes me respect them less, as really, they are just Being pedantic :censored: ers

[Nightfall]

Initially I only read the press release too but felt I couldn't comment until properly reading the artical 

They are picky but not because they expect the park to actually do what they are asking but because they want them to listen to what they have to say. This is how groups like this tend to work; they make an unreasonable demand then negotiate with them until both sides have come to a mutual conclusion. It normally ends up being something trivial like £x must be spent on infrastructure or x number of trees need to be planted.

I will say though that the JCB point is in some ways fair as that is a very important test site... Even if it's ironic that Alton gets so much flack for noise pollution when they aren't even the worst offenders 

Also if a similar application was withdrawn to build the other Hotels I can understand why they'd be annoyed that they are being allowed to build it anyway. But a lot has changed in 24 years.

[Superman]

Well I thought i would include my points of view on this subject... and for background info, I first visited as a child when nemesis opened!

Anyway i kind of see both points of view:

First off I do agree that Alton have been taking the pee when it comes to the local traffic situation...
The towers originally added the very expensive parking charge to invest in transport. However from the millions the park has made how much of it has gone on transport solutions outside of the parks gates?

The park has very poor public transport options, and what confuses me is that parking is a 'perk' for the top Merlin pass. Does this mean part of the premium you pay for the pass goes into the local transport system..? (I highly doubt it)

Its this greed again from Merlin and Alton Towers (who were the first to introduce a parking charge) that has meant something promised has yet again be undelivered. So maybe they locals are using this as a way of saying "Do something you said you would do"? PUBLIC TRANSPORT is what needs to be addressed and with today's papers saying the number of cars the uk is using is less then less people will have the option of going to the park.

Look at the new paramount park in Kent - they want 75% - 95% of users to arrive by public transport. They want to use shows and parades to smooth the flow of traffic. Come 5pm at Alton they are almost chasing you out of the park!

In terms of other business i don;t think they will be too badly effected, if the prices are to go by at thorpe for a shipping container then this will be very ££££.

I would argue the towers point of view but i dont they they invest in what they have, and the park is in such a state that i would need a dissertation sized document to really get what it thought of my chest.

[crofty2009]

+ Apparently the new development is not in keeping with the historic landscape of the Estate and its trees and woodlands, although they don’t specify why

i find this highly amusing.
if anyone is ever walking through the gardens near the forbidden valley sky ride station at the "observation tower" for want of a better term, if you look through the bushes on the steps you will see a very round stone lined hole underneath the tower, funny how it looks just like a hobbit hole, it my be a folly but it is in the gardens so how can the new lodges not be in keeping with the landscape, when it so clearly 'if a little hidden' features a hobbit hole 

this is a case of build the by-pass and help with the re-opening of the train line to help with transport.
after all it can feel like such an adventure going on holiday by train, and a real selling point for alton if it opens soon.

[LPAJ13]

Ok, just found this in The Sentinal website. It is a fresh news story today.

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Vi ... story.html

2 apposing views for the Relief road;

Firstly, Merlin's view:

"In the past, the attraction's owner, Merlin Entertainments, has rejected proposals to build a relief road to the resort which would bypass the congested villages.

The firm estimates it would cost roughly £30 million to set up such a road and claims it would only be needed for six weeks per year.

Transport body

"Councillor Mike Maryon, cabinet member for highways and transport, said: "If Alton Towers was built now, it probably wouldn't get planning permission without the highway infrastructure. I would have liked to have seen a relief road."

My view is that if Towers/Merlin did invest in the new road, people would use it especially from the Uttox end which bypass's Alton Village if it did happen. Such negative thinking from Merlin. Getting home would be a lot quicker and when there are events such as concerts and fireworks, instead of waiting up to 3 hours to leave the park, it would take less than an hour (my guess, not fact). This would also allow Merlin/Towers to develop and get better things within the park faster due to increased footfall into the park.

[oliviamae]

ouch £30m. It's a lot of money, but the transport around there is dire at times. Unfortunately issues like this are unavoidable in rural areas! I personally feel that the road > the lodges, as less traffic congestion would lead to people being less likely to need a stop-over, but then that's less income coming in

[bensaund]

Just to think if they spent £30 million on two good rides, I'd happily sit in traffic, but in all my visits to the Towers I have never ever been in any traffic, maybe it is because I always arrive so early. I get in for 8-8:30

[haydn!]

It's not traffic as in bumper to bumper traffic jam. It's a continuous stream of moving vehicles through the area that's causing the problem.

[bensaund]

At least the traffic is moving, if you try to get to Legoland, the queue from the M4 through Windsor is very very bad, then when kicking out time, the queue from the Windsor relief road goes right up to the Legoland Exit, now that is bad traffic.

I understand they don't want too much traffic and not in my bad yard and all that, but they have to accept that Alton will get their own way just like Tescos will when they want to build a new store. It just takes a little more money and effort to get it through.

I can't see these lodges getting rejected, if anything the council/ residents will just try and put pressure on for Alton to spend more money on public transport blah blah blah, but we all know that it is just a waste of money. The bypass is the only solution and I don't think Alton should pay the full cost, but in fact the local council should be supporting this and doing their best to get it built as its in the interest of Alton, local residents and visitors to the park.

[altontowerskid]

£30m is a very inaccurate figure. The sort of road that will be needed to ease congestion around the Alton village would be very likely to exceed even double that amount. It is the difficulty in working with the area which would push up the cost the most.

I believe the opposition has taken the wrong route if they are against the park expanding. Traffic may be a big issue, but for some reason, Alton seem to bypass traffic issues when the council deal with their applications. High pay-offs? Probably very likely.