Roper update

[Bote]

I'm sorry, but what did they really expect. They bought a house, next to a theme park.

Well no they didn't. The Ropers main argument is that they lived in Farley before Alton was anything near the scale of it's operations today. As CF's timeline shows they took up residence prior to Corkscrew being installed, which is where most people would probably say Alton started becoming what it is today.

However, I do think it is absolutely ridiculous. Hopefully the high court will be able to see reason and put an end to all this nonsense once and for all.

Last I heard the Ropers don't actually live in their Farley property anymore. I really do get the impression that the only reason they haven't sold it is due to the fact that it's one of the only things that leaves them with a leg to stand on.

The case has already been thrown out as rubbish by one court already, yet they clearly haven't taken the hint.

I think I would be right in saying that one of the only ways the Ropers could possibly win the case is if they were to find that Towers have not followed planning regulations and are in breach of the conditions an attraction was built on? This is something Towers have always been very cautious of ever since the problems first arose, and I'm sure will have taken every precaution to stop the Ropers from getting their way.

The Ropers seem to have something of a skill when it comes to overreacting though. According to Mrs Roper once the vibrations from Oblivion made their windows rattle and could be felt through the house... Odd. Whenever I've been stood anywhere near X-Sector the vibrations have been surprisingly low! In fact, the only area I think you ever feel any noticeable vibrations are in Th13teen's queue when Rita passes overhead! :P

If the Ropers do loose this it will be interesting to see if they ever attempt to start their war on Towers again. Maybe a hefty legal fee is what it will take for them to get the message that they can't win.

[garyh]

Can I just make a point that no matter how big Alton is, no matter how vital it is for the local economy, no matter how much money they have and no matter how many people they employ, it doesnt give them an excuse to break the law, and if it can be proved that they are breaking the law, then the courts will take action, end of.  So stop saying they wont win because of these things - it doesnt matter one little bit regardless how big and powerful Alton is.

[BigAl]

But do you think they'll have been so stupid as to do something whilst developing one of the subject attractions that would potentially jeopardise its future along with any other attractions that are also at fault? They have known for a very long time that they can't do whatever they want and have kept to planning guidelines that the local council has set them. Especially for a ride such as Oblivion. That's far too big and iconic and it cost the park a lot to develop, so they won't have tried to sneak anything past the council or else it's game over.

[Slappy McGuire]

I'm going to put the cat amongst the pigeons.  Maybe, just maybe, it's not a bad thing if they partially win.  Imagine this scenario - the courts say that more extreme soundproofing is needed, the two most obvious rides to be effected will be Oblivion, and Sonic Spinball.  Oblivion is the hardest to amend in a satisfactory manner, but perhaps if the park was cute, it could flank the ride with some kind of waterfall effect, naturally masking the noise, while at the same time, adding something serious to the ride.

Spinball on the other hand is more likely to be moved, and frankly wouldn't be hugely surprised to see it at Thorpe, (Dragon's Fury, or no Dragon's Fury), but imagine this - possibly the best dark rollercoaster in Europe is Crush's Coaster at DLRP, which is essentially the same basic ride as Spinball, enclosed in a huge metal shed.  Now it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that the park may see some merit in introducing a few high profile, all weather, high impact rides like this, and with spinball in mind, they are effectively halfway there...

I hope the Rabid Ropers fall on their nimby posteriors...but what I would say is this - with nimbys, you get Nemesis.  Without, you get Inferno.

[BigAl]

...but what I would say is this - with nimbys, you get Nemesis.  Without, you get Inferno.

But if they had their way, there would be neither.

[Slappy McGuire]

Scenarios like this rarely give 'winners' and 'losers', more compromises that frankly fail to satisfy both sides.  What I am trying to say that in an attempt to do so though, the park has proved in the past quite inventive at having the rides befit their home, precisely because of 'trying to fit in.'  In the long term, if it offers up more heavily themed and considered rides like Nemesis, then that isn't necessarily a bad thing - necessity is the mother of invention.

[garyh]

Just read the transcript from the solicitor - interesting indeed and not sounding very good for Alton Towers.  Sounds like evidence has been witheld or even falsified regarding noise readings.  The Ropers are pushing for a maximum noise level of 40db, and for caps to be put on concerts/fireworks events with regards noise. 

I cant even believe they are complaining against the fireworks and concerts.  There are few concerts at Alton Towers as it is, and fireworks, 3 days a year in November when the rest of the world is letting off fireworks.... miserable gits.

But it is worrying, reading the Bio of their solicitior, he has taken on the MoD regarding aircraft noise, and the MoD is CONSIDERABLY bigger than Merlin could ever be!!!  Worrying times for Merlin......

As for the Ropers house, type in postcode ST10 3BQ.  Zoom in and you will see a house to the right of the pointer with a very ornate garden, a cross with a circle in the middle.  I believe this is the Ropers house, it is exactly 100 yards from the main entrance.  Im showing this location to give people an idea of how close their house is to the park entrance, but questionably, not to Oblivion or Spinball.....

[BigAl]

Seriously? They can't put up with 3 out of 365 days a year of brilliant fireworks displays? Perhaps if they'd remove their heads from their own backsides for just a few seconds, they'd actually realise how brilliant the fireworks displays at Alton Towers are. They've had fireworks displays for longer than they've even been walking this earth!

As for the concerts, Alton Towers haven't even got any lined up for this year. They're even complaining about something that doesn't exist. And even when they do have a concert, that only adds another couple of days to the events line-up where the park makes a bit more noise.

I hope they loose this battle and suffer serious financial damage. They own a property in one of the most beautiful places in the UK with one of the greatest theme park attraction on the planet, and all they can do is moan! Bloody arrogant, toffee-nosed, melodramatic, imbecilic fun sponges!

[Tom G]

Time for a reality check and a dose of cold water, because some of the posts made over the latter half of this topic are seriously lacking knowledge of this dispute and even common sense in many cases.

They moved there in 1968, long before seriously noisy rides were constructed. They have opposed the construction of every major rollercoaster since Corkscrew. They have therefore been consistent with their objections, and you can't say they chose to move next to anything like what the park is today.

When they went to court in 2004, they got a judge to rule that Alton Towers WAS guilty of excess noise. Hence why Oblivions speakers were removed and fireworks were cancelled. I think that guilty verdict was changed on appeal, but nevertheless it gives weight to their challenge. You cannot simply say they don't stand a chance.

They are millionaires, they have three mortgage-free homes and just because their income is £200,000 per year, doesn't mean they aren't worth much more than that in savings and assets.

Losing a High Court case will likely cost them hundreds of thousands of pounds in costs, I don't think they are taking this lightly.

Solicitors always win because the losing side foots the costs.

One way or another, and possibly after just one more appeal, this now seems destined to be resolved once and for all. I predict that this is their final curtain call on the matter.

I have little sympathy for the Ropers, but I just want people to be clear of the facts and also the fact that there is a very real possibility they will win the case, which would have serious implications for Alton Towers.

In a nutshell, they aren't certain to lose, they were there before the park's first rollercoaster and they aren't moving anywhere.

[BigAl]

But even if they do win, they aren't going to remove or move a ride such as Oblivion. It's not possible to move it elsewhere and people won't stand there and let two people remove a ride that millions of others enjoy.

[dmmosh1]

here the results ropers loose, suffer heavy financial loss, have to sell the house, alton towers buys the house noise, one less miserbale pair of w@nk£r$ to put up with

i always thought that the locals who enjoy and get a hugh ammount of work from alton towers and counter there claims saying that they are blocking there growth and income and towers need to be given a bit more flexability

[Dormiens-Dave]

I don't disagree with your post Tom except the bit about they aren't moving anywhere, they spend very little time in Farley, i would have more sympathy if they did live there all the time.

However in my opinion this is a matter for the courts and what will be will be, i hope for the sake of Staffordshire that they lose because Merlin will wind Towers down if this goes against them as potentially a whole section of the theme park becomes un-usable and this will cost the economy.

However i also think the relatively childish comments about the Ropers on this topic have been silly, i don't wish ruin on them, i just wish they would cease this action.

[garyh]

But even if they do win, they aren't going to remove or move a ride such as Oblivion. It's not possible to move it elsewhere and people won't stand there and let two people remove a ride that millions of others enjoy.

Alton will have no choice, if the High Court tells them to move it, or close it and remove it, Alton will have to do it regardless of how many millions of people enjoy riding it.  The laws the law and thats that!  Alton arent exempt.

[mrbrightside]

Feasibly guys what could actually happen to Towers. I know Oblivion removal/relocation/closure has been stated but if the Ropers win what could actually happen? Is it just an 'in theory' that it could happen or is it a certainty should they win?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigAl]

But even if they do win, they aren't going to remove or move a ride such as Oblivion. It's not possible to move it elsewhere and people won't stand there and let two people remove a ride that millions of others enjoy.

Alton will have no choice, if the High Court tells them to move it, or close it and remove it, Alton will have to do it regardless of how many millions of people enjoy riding it.  The laws the law and thats that!  Alton arent exempt.

Oh yes, I understand that, but people aren't just going to let this go by. If there's any chance of Oblivion being removed, it'll be all over the news and I assume there'd be many more people ready to defend Alton than at the moment.

[Slappy McGuire]

In the scheme of things, how unreasonable are they, compared to say the Nimbys at Chessie, or say LWV's Farmer Giles?

[garyh]

But even if they do win, they aren't going to remove or move a ride such as Oblivion. It's not possible to move it elsewhere and people won't stand there and let two people remove a ride that millions of others enjoy.

Alton will have no choice, if the High Court tells them to move it, or close it and remove it, Alton will have to do it regardless of how many millions of people enjoy riding it.  The laws the law and thats that!  Alton arent exempt.

Oh yes, I understand that, but people aren't just going to let this go by. If there's any chance of Oblivion being removed, it'll be all over the news and I assume there'd be many more people ready to defend Alton than at the moment.

I hear what your saying dude, but press, people etc etc aint gonna stop the rule of the High Court.  (I have visions of people chaining themselves to the railings and the track come demolishion day!!)

[Dormiens-Dave]

If the Ropers win this Towers would be able to apply for an appeal, potentially local MP's could get involved and try to get the government to back the business which obviously it would be inclined to do in the current financial climate. The best way of doing that would be to make amendments to the current planning laws that are going through parliament. As much as courts implement the law, parliament creates the law so there would be options.

However bare bones if Towers loses they will have to follow the will of the courts. This gets very interesting if the complaint here doesn't fall strictly speaking within existing law then we come into the realm of legal precedent and the courts can almost do what they want as long as it can be justified in the framework of existing precedent.

The law does take into account things like "greater good", the individual does not always overrule society.

Who goes.... they decide

[Pennywise]

A meme is always the answer!


Seriously though, has anybody else actually EVER taken Alton Towers to court with regards to noise pollution? The majority of the local population, undoubtedly, support the theme park both in terms of being a visitor attraction and also in terms of essentially being the local economy. It's all well and good the Ropers, with their second home, lodging complaints but it has to be taken into account what would happen to the likes of the local B&Bs and pubs if Alton Towers were to close.

I really can't see the Ropers being popular in the village, whatsoever. It's an issue that only they seem to have, with others inclined to agree that the positives of Alton Towers' existence outweigh the (probable) hardships of living so close to the park. Laughable.

[garyh]

Feasibly guys what could actually happen to Towers. I know Oblivion removal/relocation/closure has been stated but if the Ropers win what could actually happen? Is it just an 'in theory' that it could happen or is it a certainty should they win?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who knows.  The Ropers are pushing for a maximum noise level of 40db.  Not sure the exact level at the moment, think its about 43-45db.  Basically they are pushing for Oblivion to be shut down, possibly spinball, and for noise limits to be imposed on concerts and firework events. 

Alton Towers have to then be able to prove they are abiding by the new rules.  I guess noise sensors around Alton will have to be placed by Alton which can prove the noise levels are within the new limits.  Failure to comply would result in huge fines for the park, and continual breaches could result in more rides being closed, relocated, etc. 

In reality, Alton wont demolish Oblivion, but they may have to do something with the ride.  I think they could enclose it, have the lift hill enclosed and the drop enclosed which would significantly reduce the noise.  May actually make the ride more exciting if they added some effects into the darkness (dropping in to a "Black Hole" for example). 

Whatever happens, them winning their case is very possible, especially with the solicitor they have who has won against the MoD over noise.  I believe part of the problem is when Oblivion plans were submitted, the true noise level of the ride wasnt declared, the figures were incorrect, this is another thing going against Alton.