Roper update
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LPAJ13
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It's actually quite interesting to see what the noise assessment was based on and where the points of the nose tests were done in the planning application.Rob-TT wrote: Noise assessments were done and the level of noise was considered in the planning application.
The noise assessment report can be found http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/upload/PublicAccess/Noise%20Report%20for%202013%20(37873).PDF at that link
Its not what ya take out that works, its what you put in that makes it work
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KittyKat
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Gosh, I remember them on TV when I was a kid.Boz wrote: It's still waiting to go to court as far as I'm aware, these kind of proceedings take forever tbh.
If they felt that strongly about it and it was that much of a inconvenience they'd have moved by now. I'm not saying they should have to if you know what I mean. But, it clearly can't be that big of a problem considering they've lived there 30 odd years.
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Lee
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I'm going to be a little controversial here and say I understand their point. People forget that the ropers lived in the area long before alton towers become the entertainment resort it is today; rollercoasters, fireworks, Halloween events, music festivals, winter events etc. The resort in some capacity is 365days a year.
Whilst I don't agree the noise situation is as bad as they are making out, they still have a right to complain. Many people use their factory to claim they are hypocrits, but here's an example. Without giving my location away, I live directly below liverpool airports summer flight plan. The noise has increased ten fold since the airport increased its short haul programme with easyjet etc. we don't live close enough to claim compensation, but the plains fly close enough to read their logos etc. when.complaining to the airport, they listen and apologise but there isn't anything they offer. If this was the roper situation, you'd tell me to just move. After complaining and being annoyed at 7am unable to sleep. It does get tiresome. However I still fly from liverpool to geneva, to alicante, to France and goodness knows where. Am I a hypocrit?
As I have said, I don't believe the ropers noise is as bad as they are making out, but people really hate on them and I do that's unfair. You're not in the situation. It appears they are fortunate enough to have the money to put up a decent fight against alton towers and it seems they have become a torn in their side. People assume other locals don't get annoyed with alton towers just because they make money from them. It'll be interesting to see how happy the locals are when the log cabins are built as that will take trade away from the local area.
Whilst I don't agree the noise situation is as bad as they are making out, they still have a right to complain. Many people use their factory to claim they are hypocrits, but here's an example. Without giving my location away, I live directly below liverpool airports summer flight plan. The noise has increased ten fold since the airport increased its short haul programme with easyjet etc. we don't live close enough to claim compensation, but the plains fly close enough to read their logos etc. when.complaining to the airport, they listen and apologise but there isn't anything they offer. If this was the roper situation, you'd tell me to just move. After complaining and being annoyed at 7am unable to sleep. It does get tiresome. However I still fly from liverpool to geneva, to alicante, to France and goodness knows where. Am I a hypocrit?
As I have said, I don't believe the ropers noise is as bad as they are making out, but people really hate on them and I do that's unfair. You're not in the situation. It appears they are fortunate enough to have the money to put up a decent fight against alton towers and it seems they have become a torn in their side. People assume other locals don't get annoyed with alton towers just because they make money from them. It'll be interesting to see how happy the locals are when the log cabins are built as that will take trade away from the local area.
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Trisnie
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I can see both sides of this argument but I would imagine the Ropers will either die before this is resolved or they will run out of money.
I suspect they may win this case and then Merlin will appeal the decision stating that due to the amount of money invested in the areas causing the problems the park wouldn't survive the areas been shut down and so based on the treat of closure of the park the ruling will be modified to which the Ropers will once more appeal.
They have my sympathy as I wouldn't want to live that close but they should realise the park is here to stay as are all it's rides
For my money the courts should force Merlin to pay full market value for the property to the Ropers and then call that it!
Alternatively the MOJ should kidnap them and Marmalise them on the Smiler! problem solved (Joking!)
I suspect they may win this case and then Merlin will appeal the decision stating that due to the amount of money invested in the areas causing the problems the park wouldn't survive the areas been shut down and so based on the treat of closure of the park the ruling will be modified to which the Ropers will once more appeal.
They have my sympathy as I wouldn't want to live that close but they should realise the park is here to stay as are all it's rides
For my money the courts should force Merlin to pay full market value for the property to the Ropers and then call that it!
Alternatively the MOJ should kidnap them and Marmalise them on the Smiler! problem solved (Joking!)
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KittyKat
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I started mooching around on the Internet about this the other night and it looks like the Ropers have never had a case against Merlin since Oblivion was built. The only reason they had a case there was because of the old announcement played at the top of the drop.
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Lucieloo
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Is there anywhere on the ole internet a video of these two? I assume they have been on the news, and wonder if there is video evidence of this noise with them standing in their garden and almost saying " see listen to this"
??? Anyone know???
??? Anyone know???
First person ever to be proposed to on the Smiler! xxxxxx
And because of that I am now Mrs A....
And because of that I am now Mrs A....
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LPAJ13
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I want to post about some of the history of this case.
In 2004, I had heard about this case and set up an online petition to help Alton Towers/Tussauds to show support that we didn’t believe that The Roper’s were being unreasonable with their actions for noise. This was set up in the September of that year; in the August of that year on August 1st, i was meeting my family who had come down from Scotland for a week holiday to the area and was meeting them at the park. Long story short, i walked down the full length of Farley lane from the star caravan park. Even when I saw the park by the old buildings near the park but about ¼ mile from the park on the approach to the park, what the Ropers were arguing was that you could hear the noise of the park and oblivion from a mile away. I did not hear any noise even from ¼ mile away let alone a mile away like claimed. A load of signatures were gathered at the RCCGB event that day (they talked about Project:RITA which was being constructed at the time at the event).
In the January, there was a local meeting which was held at Alton village hall. I went along initially to hand over the petition to the meeting. Due to the court case, no one from Alton Towers went to the meeting as not to influence the meeting in anyway. At that time, 98% of the villagers who attending the meeting were in support of towers but had some minor concerns about the infrastructure of the road system and not about noise. There was a group of enthusiast at the back who were local plus a now member of management. I was the last to speak in support of towers and handed over the petition to the organisers of the meeting.
What was mentioned at the meeting via a few people who knew the case more than me was the “rumour” that this all started around the time that the hotels at towers changed their suppliers from Churchill China for their crockery supplier to another supplier. IF there is any truth in this, this is nothing to do with noise and more to do with being annoyed at a business decision taken by the hotels.
When noise experts have been within the Roper garden which faces towards towers, all they could pick up was “bird noise and general low level natural noise”.
One thing which I have noticed is that when the local newspaper, The Sentinel, has been reporting on this court case is that every time I have posted about the “rumour”, the whole of my post has been removed. This would indicate to me that there MAY be truth in that rumour.
In 2004, I had heard about this case and set up an online petition to help Alton Towers/Tussauds to show support that we didn’t believe that The Roper’s were being unreasonable with their actions for noise. This was set up in the September of that year; in the August of that year on August 1st, i was meeting my family who had come down from Scotland for a week holiday to the area and was meeting them at the park. Long story short, i walked down the full length of Farley lane from the star caravan park. Even when I saw the park by the old buildings near the park but about ¼ mile from the park on the approach to the park, what the Ropers were arguing was that you could hear the noise of the park and oblivion from a mile away. I did not hear any noise even from ¼ mile away let alone a mile away like claimed. A load of signatures were gathered at the RCCGB event that day (they talked about Project:RITA which was being constructed at the time at the event).
In the January, there was a local meeting which was held at Alton village hall. I went along initially to hand over the petition to the meeting. Due to the court case, no one from Alton Towers went to the meeting as not to influence the meeting in anyway. At that time, 98% of the villagers who attending the meeting were in support of towers but had some minor concerns about the infrastructure of the road system and not about noise. There was a group of enthusiast at the back who were local plus a now member of management. I was the last to speak in support of towers and handed over the petition to the organisers of the meeting.
What was mentioned at the meeting via a few people who knew the case more than me was the “rumour” that this all started around the time that the hotels at towers changed their suppliers from Churchill China for their crockery supplier to another supplier. IF there is any truth in this, this is nothing to do with noise and more to do with being annoyed at a business decision taken by the hotels.
When noise experts have been within the Roper garden which faces towards towers, all they could pick up was “bird noise and general low level natural noise”.
One thing which I have noticed is that when the local newspaper, The Sentinel, has been reporting on this court case is that every time I have posted about the “rumour”, the whole of my post has been removed. This would indicate to me that there MAY be truth in that rumour.
Its not what ya take out that works, its what you put in that makes it work
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Tryst
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I did find the summary judgement on Ropers Vs. Tussaud's online somewhere. All court proceedings are public record, so I could probably find it again. tl;dr version is that the announcements and music from X-Sector were the main cause of the nuisance, something which AT haven't done since 2004. There was also a lot of discussion about fireworks - some of the witnesses called by the Ropers' counsel were actually in favour of those, despite the noise! Oh, and a corporate event for BT that got a little out of hand...
The Ropers have the right to enjoy their home. Alton Towers have the right to make some money. Park guests have the right to have a little fun. Balancing those rights is not going to be easy!
The Ropers have the right to enjoy their home. Alton Towers have the right to make some money. Park guests have the right to have a little fun. Balancing those rights is not going to be easy!
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gabbygrace
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if their main issue was the noise from X-Sector and AT have taken measures to reduce this, What is the problem? I think I read in an artical about the High Court case being granted that Alton Towers have also reduced the amount of firework displays thay have as well?
Additionally, if noise measurments have been made from The Ropers garden and nothing but "bird noise and low level natural sounds" have been recorded then why has the case not been thrown out?
Maybe I need to do some more reasearch into but it seems very strange and unfair that the Ropers continue with the case against AT when it seems all initial complaints have been dealt with. Did they not get enough money? Or is that "rumour" true?
Additionally, if noise measurments have been made from The Ropers garden and nothing but "bird noise and low level natural sounds" have been recorded then why has the case not been thrown out?
Maybe I need to do some more reasearch into but it seems very strange and unfair that the Ropers continue with the case against AT when it seems all initial complaints have been dealt with. Did they not get enough money? Or is that "rumour" true?
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Boz
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From what I understand, The Ropers won the noise abatement order, which resulted in the removal of the "don't look down" from Oblivion's drop, as this was thought to be "encouraging riders to scream louder" (biggest load of crap I've ever heard in my life).
This new case, is a lawsuit brought against towers for the same time period, in which the ropers are basically demanding compensation, for the "detrimental effect it's had on their lives" (which is the second biggest load of crap I've ever heard"
As I've stated in the past, the professional readings done, showed the noise from oblivion peaking at 46db. This level of noise can be drowned out by a nearby small bird tweeting (average level of 52db) or trees rustling in the wind (average level of 55-56db), and definitely not something they would hear indoors, with the TV on. The only reason they won that abatement order in the first place, is due to a precedant in law that states anything over 40db, which is not "natural noise" can be considered a nuisance.
They have tried to bring this current Lawsuit several times, and each time it's been thrown out by the judge because it's been seen as too trivial. My understanding is that on this occasion it's been allowed to go to the high court, purely to see an end to the matter, with the judges warning the Ropers that they would likely be incurring substantial financial losses. Which suggests although he's allowed to go on, he doesn't expect the Ropers to win, and he's just doing it to shut them up.
This new case, is a lawsuit brought against towers for the same time period, in which the ropers are basically demanding compensation, for the "detrimental effect it's had on their lives" (which is the second biggest load of crap I've ever heard"
As I've stated in the past, the professional readings done, showed the noise from oblivion peaking at 46db. This level of noise can be drowned out by a nearby small bird tweeting (average level of 52db) or trees rustling in the wind (average level of 55-56db), and definitely not something they would hear indoors, with the TV on. The only reason they won that abatement order in the first place, is due to a precedant in law that states anything over 40db, which is not "natural noise" can be considered a nuisance.
They have tried to bring this current Lawsuit several times, and each time it's been thrown out by the judge because it's been seen as too trivial. My understanding is that on this occasion it's been allowed to go to the high court, purely to see an end to the matter, with the judges warning the Ropers that they would likely be incurring substantial financial losses. Which suggests although he's allowed to go on, he doesn't expect the Ropers to win, and he's just doing it to shut them up.
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a13ex_f
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can't wait for the ropers to loose the case and need to sell the house in alton to pay court costs, only to not be able to find a buyer, then to add insult to injury alton towers offer to buy it for half market value!
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Lee
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I don't think that's what alton towers will want. Alton towers and merlin don't want to sour relationships with the local people who, I would presume, will know of or be friends with the ropers. It's a small community I'd imagine.a13ex_f wrote: can't wait for the ropers to loose the case and need to sell the house in alton to pay court costs, only to not be able to find a buyer, then to add insult to injury alton towers offer to buy it for half market value!
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PeteB
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From what I've heard, everyone in the area hates them.
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gabbygrace
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I was going to say, they are a part of a small community yet seem to be the only ones moaning.....
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bensaund
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It is a bit like people who live under the flight path at Heathrow complaining about the noise, unless they are 80 years old and owned the house before the airport was built, how can they complain about the noise when they knew there was an airport there in the first place....
I guess the loss of "Don't look down" is a success rather than the loss of Oblivion altogether.
I guess the loss of "Don't look down" is a success rather than the loss of Oblivion altogether.
If you go down to the woods today
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gaz1313
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Their point being they have been there since the late 60's from what I remember, before it was even a minor theme park, although it has always been a tourist attraction in one way or another.bensaund wrote: It is a bit like people who live under the flight path at Heathrow complaining about the noise, unless they are 80 years old and owned the house before the airport was built, how can they complain about the noise when they knew there was an airport there in the first place....
I guess the loss of "Don't look down" is a success rather than the loss of Oblivion altogether.
