Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

General discussion regarding the UK's No.1 Theme Park. Talk about anything and everything Alton Towers here.
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Well it certainly sounds from the various pieces of feedback I've heard over the past few days that the ride has significantly improved. Personally, I won't be riding it again as I found it more than stressful enough on opening day, and it's really not something I'd enjoy.

The only real issue I have to say from being around the ride yesterday was that the banging of the final area was very audible from the surrounding area, and I can't help but think that if you were to remember that when beginning the ride you'd be a bit confused as to why the monster has suddenly gone back into it's egg, and all is fine and dandy :P But I guess I'm looking into this too deeply, and no doubt the noise is rather obstructed by the baggage hold when in the main queueline.

The general reaction of guests leaving the attraction looked much more positive than those of opening day, and there were certainly people who looked more than glad to be free from the last container.

Going from feedback others have posted I can only really think of a couple of things which may benefit riders.

Firstly, in the final lift a few people have suggested that it seems rather odd you empty out into this "decontamination area" even though you are meant to be in a facility which has been reasonably adapted for the public. Maybe the addition of either a recording, or even just a couple of spoken words from the two staff who are on the other side of the doors explaining that you have been taken out of the lift at an emergency exit of some description due to the monster preventing the lifts going any further, and that you will now be passing through a decontamination area to ensure you are safe to leave the facility. Or something similar to that effect, just to plug the hole in the story for anyone wondering.

Another idea, maybe that once the groups are making their way to the new area some screams are heard from behind them, either recorded, or by the staff followed by some sound effects. This would give the illusion that the monster has gotten to them and attacked, which would also add  to the panic and fear of those leaving.

Lastly, how about adding some kind of lightweight push door over the end of the container? The guests are rushing through the maze in a panic, and head straight for a door with EMERGENCY EXIT painted on it in luminous paint so it is visible in the dark. Once everyone is out the doors swing shut behind them, and if wanting to be really fancy an exterior sound effect could be added of the door slamming and sealing, which is triggered when the door shuts. This would fill the final gap by suggesting that the facility has been sealed off in an attempt to contain the monster, and prevent further problems.

I'd say they are all fairly simple tweaks which could easily be implemented to fill those final gaps people have mentioned.

I doubt anything more drastic will happen in the lower drop level now, aside from some lighting tweaks, an maybe the odd smoke machine being added, but it does sound like they have continued to improve it during the closure.

So all in all, a big well done to Towers for going back through the ride and improving it. Any improvement can only be positive for Sub-Terra :)
Last edited by Bote on Sun May 27, 2012 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dormiens-Dave

So i rode "New" Sub-Terra today and having been quite the critic of the ride up to now i thought i should post my thoughts...

Queue and Pre-shows

Not much has changed here really, the queue is the same and the queue audio was barely audiable which was a shame considering it's been down a week to fix. I also doubt they have added any technical difficulty announcements which is probably a bad move.

The first lifts however vibrate more which does add a bit more to the effect but i wouldn't call it astounding but probably the best they could do with what they have now. The corridor to the chamber has a bit of ambience sound which is nice

Main Ride

Immediately you can see that the lighting has changed here and the announcements have been tidied up so it feels less hashed together, you take your seats as normal and await your ride. The sequence starts with a better introduction to the egg and it certainly builds up tension more. Then (with a much better lighting sequence) things go wrong and the egg hatches (much the same as before... que water).

The lights return and here the egg is hatched but then the lights go out again and with some (much louder) sound effects you drop. The drops feel about the same as before but now before you reach the bottom the lower level lights come on which to me made the drop feel bigger as you got a sense of the depth you had dropped. Now down below we have more eggs and a really good lighting scheme.

The creature noises (again much louder) start going yet now you can hear it walking behind you and blasts of air on your neck make it feel like it's breathing on your neck. You are plunged into darkness and as you ascend you are treated to a much more generous use of the back poker and leg ticklers. This all seemed to get the room screaming.

We return to the top and the lighting and strobes start going off yet now with a count-down facing each tower, you are told the containment system will detonate in 30 seconds so you must get out. This does add some tension to the exit and the link to the lifts is now filled with smoke and strobes really adding to the atmosphere. The exit lifts are much the same but louder and with some air blasts, also the panels drop on the first bang of the attack and before the lights go out which is better and the shaking is more violent

Finale

The lifts stop and the doors open and a man in a gas mask runs into the lift shining a torch in people faces, in one lift he tell you to move and in the other lift you are held a little longer. The exit corridor is very dark and masked men jump out from nowhere shouting at you and air cannons go beserk. At the end a lowering fabric roof forces you to bend down and you reach the end.

Review

All the changes to the existing ride are minor but definitely make the attraction feel very coherent now, there is also better use of the existing effects and much better atmosphere and lighting.

The finale scare maze, at the moment doesn't really get it's narrative across very well (it's meant to be a decontamination zone). Also the scare-actors didn't always get the scares but its only Day 2 and having had a go at scare acting i know it takes a while to get in the groove. THAT SAID the new finale really does make this ride much better and people where coming out screaming.

Interestingly we where speaking to a park manager who was at the exit and he acknowledged the exit story needed to be told better and that further improvements where being considered. It does seem however that the ride is getting a much more positive reaction from guests.

Final Thought

Before today i put Sub-Terra as a poorly executed if well themed (internal) ride maybe 4/10. Now i think its a good solid mid-level attraction maybe a 7/10 (if they neaten it up maybe an 8 ). It's now not an embaressment to have in the park, with "most" guests coming off satisfied.
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Sun May 27, 2012 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
djtruefitt

From what I can gather today they still havnt got any breakdown messages or anything for outside.

I was in the single rider queue at the end of the day and it broke down. The first lot of 40 people came out and got fast track, then the second lot of 40 people, it was only after this that a guy came around the queue and shouted that it had broke down, etc, etc. It wasnt too bad today as the queue wasnt too long, but I imagine if its a full queue it must be a nightmare to walk around around it to tell people. There did seem to be a megaphone on the floor near the baggage store but they didnt seem to use it.  (It worked out well for me anyway, I was there for 10 mins and got a free fast track again).

I really would have thought after a week they would have created some proper breakdown messages as it just feels very confusing being a guest in the queue and having no idea what is going on.
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Tom G
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Very interesting, I look forward to trying it in revised form later this year.
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marky.com
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Whilst I understand why some people don't like the ride, I rode it in the middle of it all and as I said before - I loved it. For me - it's a little filler ride and as such I think it's great - it offers something unique, takes up space that was filled with a nasty pay attraction and I'm looking forward to visiting again soon with my little neice - who is only 10, but knows her ****. I'll post her feelings once she's been on it.

I'm loving the sound of what has been added and whilst I've been a very vocal critic in the past - for me, this is a great filler flat - the very thing many on here were calling out for...
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Im going to have to drive up and ride this again within the next few weeks. I actually enjoyed Terry when I first rode it. But I did feel there could be more. So this gives me an excuse (plus I'm missing nemesis :( I believe we have quite a bond lmao). On a brighter note, I'm very happy Towers are listening to reviews of customers and are responding quickly to improve what needs improving. (que the moaning from users saying its not enough and that THEIR little faults with AT should be fixed immediately). But yes hopefully I can be joined by some users in thanking Alton Towers for this gift :)
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DannyNewbro
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garyh wrote: Brightside your totally missing my point.....

While nemesis may be rusty metal that goes through an MDF monster, its all within the same theme.  I dont get the idea behind the scare maze at the end......  Yeah ok they have improved the actual ride experience, but what the heck has a scare maze with people in gas masks got to do with the "safe" complex and the egg hatching?  Plus, do we really think this maze with the live actors is going to run every single day, all day with the same level of intensity? 

I agree Alton didnt have to go back and tweak it but any idiot can add a quick maze at the end, hang some black drapes and put two actors in gas masks and a strobe light!!!  Anyway, im not saying its bad or anything, im going to try it myself in a week or so, but I cant help but feel that while the actual ride and lift improvements are welcome, this bit at the end maybe (to me) makes the experience feel a bit disjointed.  Will wait to see.
The reason they're in gas masks and with torches is to check everyone, the moster's on the loose, they need to check everybody as they get off the lift as a little add on. Plus when you say 'Alton didn't have to go back and tweak it', well they've been saving up money so they can finish the attraction, this isn't a tweak to improve the ride, well yes it is to improve the ride obviously, but it's because the Sub-Terra you saw last month was unfinished! The walkthrough at the end (it's not called a maze people) was already on the plans anyway, they just didn't have enough money to finish it! So stop bragging about the changes everyone, this is what Sub-Terra was supposed to be like on opening day!
djtruefitt wrote: From what I can gather today they still havnt got any breakdown messages or anything for outside.

I was in the single rider queue at the end of the day and it broke down. The first lot of 40 people came out and got fast track, then the second lot of 40 people, it was only after this that a guy came around the queue and shouted that it had broke down, etc, etc. It wasnt too bad today as the queue wasnt too long, but I imagine if its a full queue it must be a nightmare to walk around around it to tell people. There did seem to be a megaphone on the floor near the baggage store but they didnt seem to use it.  (It worked out well for me anyway, I was there for 10 mins and got a free fast track again).

I really would have thought after a week they would have created some proper breakdown messages as it just feels very confusing being a guest in the queue and having no idea what is going on.
Hey there, they don't like to let people know the ride has broken down, the ride's hidden indoors so nobody knows how the ride is. Plus there'd be a lot of customers moaning and complaining if it said the ride had broken down!
Last edited by DannyNewbro on Mon May 28, 2012 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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If Towers don't want people to know rides have broken down then why would they have gone to the expense of recording special breakdown announcements for most of their attractions, and for some even have them programmed to play automatically when the ride detects a problem? :P

It's basic customer service to keep your guests updated with the latest information and what's going on. Granted, if it's a minor interuption then it is understandable that they may not fully publicize it throughout the park (I.E. queue time boards), but for major breakdowns and technical difficulties guests should be notified quickly. They at least then have an understanding as to why the queue isn't going anywhere :P

Towers make do with the level of complaints they receive at present about rides failing, and Sub-Terra isn't going to make many more for them to deal with. They usually handle these matters very well :)

As for the ride being inside, so is Duel, but the second the ride fails a message plays informing of a delay, and can be heard from most of the interior queueline.
Last edited by Bote on Mon May 28, 2012 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dormiens-Dave

DannyNewbro wrote: Hey there, they don't like to let people know the ride has broken down, the ride's hidden indoors so nobody knows how the ride is. Plus there'd be a lot of customers moaning and complaining if it said the ride had broken down!
If that was the case why does every other ride... indoors or not have breakdown announcements? Alton Towers policy is to keep guests informed if a ride breaks down, otherwise people get miffed when they start to notice the queue isn't moving.
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The attraction is a lot better than opening day.  Dont get me wrong, its not a World Class attraction by any stretch of the imagination, its just a lot better than what it was.

The question that arises though, is why wasnt it like this from day one?  The concept should have been developed, run through, finalised and tested even before construction had begun.  To set up and test the concept in a car park using traffic cones a few weeks before opening was incredible.  Was there a 3D computer simulation created for the attraction?  If not there should have been.

Did Sub Terra have to open with the rest of the park in March?  Nope !! So why put pressure on everyone to get it ready and then open up a sub standard attraction.  They should have not given an opening date and just got the damm thing right.  Most parks dont open their new attractions along with the rest of the park.  They come on-line later.

These are the problems that seperate Merlin from the big boys of the industry.
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siralgenon wrote:
Tugboat wrote: Just to put some people correct in this topic, the actors are not wearing boiler suits, they are wearing the standard Phalanx Uniform, just with an added gas mask.
When I went on sub-terra yesterday there was definitely one actor wearing a white boiler suite with a full gas mask, as he entered the elevator. However I didn't see what the other where wearing.
Fair enough if that's what you saw, but I didn't see a single boiler suit, might just be me and dodgy eyes
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Forgive me, Colossus, but I am sure the traffic cones testing took place in 2011, certainly not a few weeks before opening?

:)

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Time is merging into past, present and future with my aging mind...

Thanks for the refresh Astro....

My point still remains that it should have been like this from day one.... Whoevers fault that is, who knows, but to open up such a sub standard attraction was crazy.
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Thanks for the updates all who have!
TBH i'm scared to ride it again now lol..
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DannyNewbro wrote:it's because the Sub-Terra you saw last month was unfinished! The walkthrough at the end (it's not called a maze people) was already on the plans anyway, they just didn't have enough money to finish it!
Thats not entirely true. Sub-Terra was unfinished insofar as they had not signed off the ride yet due to the unsatisfactory reviews it was receiving. This scare maze/walk through at the end has been added because of these negative reviews.

The new addition wasn't 'always' planned as it was never seen on the original planning documents, as far as I am aware. In fact, I am fairly sure that some of the area where it is located was going to be a shop, but this was pulled due to lack of funding.

So Alton have actually revisited and added new things to the attraction to please people as opposed to 'finally' getting around to finishing it...


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Sazzle

I'll keep it short and snappy for now, but I was a lot happier with my run through yesterday than I had been on any visit prior.

I said upon exit that it was 'better than before', and I'll settle for what is there, but I really really wanted something in the bottom chamber :( I cannot deny that a few extra lights has done very little, and leaves that entire part of the experience lacking considerably. For this reason alone, I have been left disappointed.

I also don't think I got a very good run through the ending - I saw briefly only one actor.

I guess I'm deflated!

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Dormiens-Dave

This is certainly still going to polarise people i think, if they wanted an amazing ride then it needs some anamatronics in the bottom of the drop so in that sense i definately agree with Sazzle. But on the whole i thought the lighting and the fact you are still dropping when it comes on adds quite a bit (not for scares but for drama).

I think i have been converted to the Terry cause :D
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Oh well, at least Alton now know what to do if people are not happy with SW7 - just stick a short cheapie scare maze at the end, bang tidy!
Dormiens-Dave

garyh wrote: Oh well, at least Alton now know what to do if people are not happy with SW7 - just stick a short cheapie scare maze at the end, bang tidy!
Sub-Terra is meant to be a scary attraction and the maze works on the ride. Maybe wait and ride it before taking the negative view. For the first time since Hex Towers have gone back to a ride and fixed it... And it now seems very popular with guests.
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Its not a negative review lol!!!  Calm down calm down. 

Its just pointing out how hilarious it is that Alton have failed to deliver a decent ride in what was the original Sub Terra concept, and their answer is to stick a small scare maze at the end with some black drapes.  Come on, am I the only one here who finds it funny that they spend millions on this ride and the technology behind it, yet the answer to making the "reviews" more positive was to just stick a scare maze costing a few quid at the end???!!!!

And if SW7 turns out to be equally as disappointing the tounge in cheek comment was made they could stick a scare maze at the end!!!!! 
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