Wicker Man - General Discussion

[Ryan.B]

Thorpe are definitely winning in theming terms 2009 + (apart from ABL) and in terms of building quality coasters without having a worlds first affecting the ride (yes they have worlds firsts, but they are part of the quality coaster for me (Saw and Colossus) only colossus's first really affected the coaster layout. Stealth isn't a gimmick as such, and it is very good, Inferno has no proper gimmick and that's a quality coaster, its just the name makes it a bit underwhelming for some people, and The Swarm is tried and tested by merlin before it was built. If we look at what merlin can do with no worlds firsts, we have Nemesis, Inferno, The Swarm, Stealth, 4 of the best merlin coasters. To me the Smiler and Colossus' worlds firsts do not affect the ride badly, they are better than most multi loopers in my opinion (more inversions, and airtime on both of them) most multiloopers have less inversions, and don't have the odd element like an airtime hill or 2. In my opinion, Alton are ahead on coasters that are good/and have worlds firsts, and Thorpe are ahead on good quality, not as gimmicky coasters, and have better theming (only since Saw though).

But I have faith in SW8 being a top class, non gimmicky coaster.

[Morgan]

None of those four coasters where Merlin :P

[Tom170499]

None of those four coasters where Merlin :P

The Swarm was a Merlin coaster...

[Morgan]

Oh yeah :P

[Ryan.B]

sssshh I meant coasters in merlin parks :lol

[scruffy_]

I have to agree with Owen here guys. If this poster was a recent bit of marketing Towers had put out and we knew it related definitely to the current SW8 concept/ride which I presume we will see open in 2017, then I think we'd be able to read into it a bit. However, this poster is quite old. This could have been for an entirely different project that was scrapped, rewritten, whatever. A lot can change in the span of a few years in terms of project ideas.

I personally think once we see a planning application then foundations being put down we could start to see marketing and teasers that we can read into a bit more (like what's happened with DBGT and "Minds Wanted").

they must of known even back then that they would be removing the log flume in the next 5 years, so think the poster could be a teaser,

Do you not think they have a plan for the next 10 years for coasters they are going to get?

[Ryan.B]

They do have a plan, yes. The plans have changed most likely looking at the forbidden valley screening, which seems to have been cancelled, They would have known they would be removing the flume most likely as it was in the long term development plan, here is a summary

The LTDP suggests many ways to improve and invest in the resort. The main points are:
•Major ride investments in 2016 and 2019 (possibly being a large dark ride and cross-valley rollercoaster)
•The 2014 lodge development
•Re-locating the entrance between Duel and Nemesis
•Removing older rides such as The Blade, Ripsaw and The Flume
•A possible 3rd hotel or extension to the Alton Towers Hotel
•Re-locating the car park behind Air to the northern fields
•Four medium to large replacement attractions

The major ride in 2016 hasn't happened, lodges were 2015, entrance has not been relocated as of 2016 (LTDP ends 2019)
Ripsaw and The flume have been removed, blade removal was on, then cancelled. likely to happen before 2019. ATH extension happening, air car park not relocated as of yet. no replacement attractions apart from Octonauts. One area retheme, one ride retheme.

So they do have a plan, it is accurate enough, but obviously it has changed as the major ride for 2016 is most likely happening in 2017/2018, replacement attraction will most likely be CATCF, Ripsaw, Flume (Ripsaw replacement could take Blades spot up as well).

Please be aware these are just my estimates on what I feel will happen with this, and the major 2016 ride was most likely completely scrapped. (at least that's what I think).

[dazza4783]

They do have a plan, yes. The plans have changed most likely looking at the forbidden valley screening, which seems to have been cancelled, They would have known they would be removing the flume most likely as it was in the long term development plan, here is a summary

The LTDP suggests many ways to improve and invest in the resort. The main points are:
•Major ride investments in 2016 and 2019 (possibly being a large dark ride and cross-valley rollercoaster)
•The 2014 lodge development
•Re-locating the entrance between Duel and Nemesis
•Removing older rides such as The Blade, Ripsaw and The Flume
•A possible 3rd hotel or extension to the Alton Towers Hotel
•Re-locating the car park behind Air to the northern fields
•Four medium to large replacement attractions

The major ride in 2016 hasn't happened, lodges were 2015, entrance has not been relocated as of 2016 (LTDP ends 2019)
Ripsaw and The flume have been removed, blade removal was on, then cancelled. likely to happen before 2019. ATH extension happening, air car park not relocated as of yet. no replacement attractions apart from Octonauts. One area retheme, one ride retheme.

So they do have a plan, it is accurate enough, but obviously it has changed as the major ride for 2016 is most likely happening in 2017/2018, replacement attraction will most likely be CATCF, Ripsaw, Flume (Ripsaw replacement could take Blades spot up as well).

Please be aware these are just my estimates on what I feel will happen with this, and the major 2016 ride was most likely completely scrapped. (at least that's what I think).

The investment structure changed from a 3 year cycle (High, Medium, Low) to a 4 year cycle (High, Medium, Low, Low) which means that the major ride investments moved to 2017 and most probably 2021. Although, as an indoor water ride and a Woodie would likely cost less than 2 big steel coasters there is the possibility that the High & Medium investments have been combined for the 2 rides and both rides could happen in the next couple of years. Especially if the rumours of a new area being created with the 2 new rides being in that area are true.

[Ben-]

So as The Smiler was a high budget coaster would that mean SW8 is a medium budget attraction? If so, many of our speculations are incorrect as, if I remember correctly, The Flume (when re-themed and ride cost) was a medium 'ish' budget, just like Th13teen was small budget.

[Owen]

I believe that Nick Varney has said that there will be new major attractions in both 2017 and 2020, although this could have changed at this point

[lewis97]

Yeah, he said that at the Neme21s event last March. Obviously that was prior to June's incident, and I'm now inclined to believe that at least the 2017 major investment has been delayed by a year.

[Owen]

I agree here, which I'm seeing as a more sensible option. However, we will have to see what the future holds

[owenrita121]

Has the park ever advertised a ride (sw8) so early though? No. Is the simple answer. I don't understand why do many people think this will be opening in 2018 when they have already started advertising it. The park will have already bought whatever the rides meant to be if he did announce at the Nemesis 21 event that something major would be opening in 2017 then plans will have already been make and purchases will have already been made. It makes no sense for them to hold it back another year, the best way to bring people back is to build more rides...

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[Sawboss]

The only reason they'd advertise early and not open next year would be to take peoples minds off the ride closures I think. We shall see later this season I spose.

[Stellafella]

Went yesterday and took sky ride over the flume.
Looks weird being drained out. The other family in the car were saying its so sad for it to be going and how can you have a theme park with no flume.
I think gp expect a water ride to replace

[owenrita121]

As soon as it's actually removed the normal park goer won't even remember it. If it is a coaster that replaces it, the flume will be forgotten in a heartbeat. I still don't understand why people are so upset over its removal, it was dirty, old, didn't run very well, took up a massive amount of space and is only enjoyable for a few short moments a year...

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[Stellafella]

As soon as it's actually removed the normal park goer won't even remember it. If it is a coaster that replaces it, the flume will be forgotten in a heartbeat. I still don't understand why people are so upset over its removal, it was dirty, old, didn't run very well, took up a massive amount of space and is only enjoyable for a few short moments a year...

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Its a nostalgia thing. Even ppl who dont go to theme parks very often picture a flume in their mind when they imagine a park.
Also its (i think) the longest ride thats ever been on the park. Plus until it changed it was a bit of a thrill ride for younger kids who werent tall enough to ride bigger stuff.

[NemesisRider]

I think SW8 is coming in 2017. By that stage, all the General Public will have forgotten the Smiler incident so they can relaunch the park with a big new investment and get guest numbers back up. Otherwise Alton Towers will just get stale for the GP and they won't come back. Also, it would be unheard of for them to tease a ride that's two years off, Merlin don't usually start until they have to. If all the Flume's track goes, we see planning permission submitted then agreed to I reckon we'll SW8 in 2017.

[lewis97]

Has the park ever advertised a ride (sw8) so early though? No. Is the simple answer. I don't understand why do many people think this will be opening in 2018 when they have already started advertising it.

They need to give some justification for why the ride has closed. Stating that it is due to be replaced by a major new ride is undoubtedly a pretty good reason, and one which will be understood and accepted by the majority of guests. Also if this is some sort of wooden coaster that doesn't have a secretive gimmick, it's going to become quite obvious once groundwork and footers start going in, so they may adopt a slightly different approach with marketing this time around.

The park will have already bought whatever the rides meant to be if he did announce at the Nemesis 21 event that something major would be opening in 2017 then plans will have already been make and purchases will have already been made.

Although they will have been in conversation with a manufacturer and have plans drawn up, it certainly wouldn't have been too late to cancel given that it wouldn't need to be manufactured until around mid-2016. It would also seem that what we now know to be SW8 is in a different location to what was proposed in the Environmental Impact Assessment from last year.

It makes no sense for them to hold it back another year, the best way to bring people back is to build more rides...

Should SW8 be in 2018, we know that there's still another attraction coming in 2017 and it wouldn't surprise me if that's a medium capex development, with SW8 the high capex in the following year. This would still provide an incentive for guests to return, and build up to the following year's major investment. I think Alton Towers and Merlin will still be conscious of the impact of The Smiler incident and wouldn't want to risk a major investment in 2017 when its impact may not be maximised.

If all the Flume's track goes, we see planning permission submitted then agreed to I reckon we'll SW8 in 2017.

It would now be fairly late compared to previous developments for a planning application to be submitted (if one is going to be), and I do think you have to become increasingly optimistic to anticipate SW8 in 2017 in that respect. What's more, it was around this time in 2012 that the deconstruction of the Black Hole tent began, but as far as I'm aware there hasn't been any notable progress in removing the Flume as of yet. The Flume consists of far more extensive structures than a tent, so realistically its removal should've begun by now if they want to give enough time for groundworks and the rest of construction to then open SW8 in Spring 2017 in around a year's time.

[MakoMania]

Do you think that there is any chance whatsoever that SW8 may not need planning permission? Not asking if it is likely or not likely, just if it is at all possible?