The annual car park price hike. 2011 edition.

[bobblebob]

I still have the old style AP (one where you got free parking). It doesnt expire until the end of April. Will i still get free parking with it?

[rct3wild]

[quote=""bobblebob""]I still have the old style AP (one where you got free parking). It doesnt expire until the end of April. Will i still get free parking with it?[/quote]

Yes, until you renew your AP.

[hypohamish]

[quote=""AstroDan""] but could not justify removing it as it made them a lot of money.

[/quote]

Thank you for making this point.

As I was reading through this thread, no one has mentioned that perhaps they have put it up for a reason? You all go on saying about the recession and whatnot and how it affects the family, but how about the effect it could've caused AT? I'm sure they have a perfectly logical reason for putting it up once more, it could even be a temporary thing just for a year to get some extra dosh in to pad the bank, or could have a larger meaning to give them more money to make improvements elsewhere.

[Tom G]

Does TT have a brick wall available to smash one's head against? :mrgreen:

[James]

[quote=""Badgy""]Quick question. Out of the 70 or so people that atteneded the opening day meet, how many actually paid for car parking? [/quote]
That's a bit irrelevant isn't it? Most members on here will be Alton regulars with annual passes that include parking, plus during meets there will be members who share cars with others for transport. We are a very small percentage of the guests that visit Alton so parking charges won't be much of an issue for some of us on here. Of course people on here will pay for parking, but then what choice do we have at the end of the day? Give up on theme park visits? Refuse to pay? All of us that have to pay for parking are stuck in a bubble, it will get to the point one year where too much is too much.

[quote=""hypohamish""][quote=""AstroDan""] but could not justify removing it as it made them a lot of money.

[/quote]

Thank you for making this point.

As I was reading through this thread, no one has mentioned that perhaps they have put it up for a reason? You all go on saying about the recession and whatnot and how it affects the family, but how about the effect it could've caused AT? I'm sure they have a perfectly logical reason for putting it up once more, it could even be a temporary thing just for a year to get some extra dosh in to pad the bank, or could have a larger meaning to give them more money to make improvements elsewhere.[/quote]
I highly doubt it affects Alton as much as it does us. They already make a decent amount of profit each year.

Plus, Alton, price rise, temporary? It's more likely for me to wake up as a woman tomorrow morning. Once there is a price rise at Alton they never decrease the price, yeah, the price could decrease in a few years with a hell of a lot of luck but this extra £1 will add up over the season and they'll probably see in figures that the price rise is only a good thing.

Lets look at how much they are capable of making from the parking charge. There's around 8000 parking spaces at Alton (on the tarmac), now if this reaches it's full capacity that £48,000 they have made alone from just parking. Now I know there aren't many times in the year where the park exceeds these amount of spaces but it just shows how much can be made.

[djtruefitt]

Even if the carpark is half empty thats still £24,000 (a day!), not bad for a big empty bit of land that would otherwise be making no money whats so ever. And what are the outgoings for the carpark? Some barriers and probably a maxamum of 10 staff to direct you to a space/let you out at the end of the day.
Surely the management must love it when they count the cash from them pay machines at the end of each day.

[Wes]

Can you still get FREE parking if you stay behind for a couple of hours after the park closes?


We went for drinks at the hotel after Halloween a few years back and all the barriers were up 2 or 3 hours later?

[djtruefitt]

When we left n Saturday after the Air walk that must have been about 7.30pm (park close 5pm) and there were still staff at the barriers, but not sure about later.

[Badgy]

[quote=""James""][quote=""Badgy""]Quick question. Out of the 70 or so people that atteneded the opening day meet, how many actually paid for car parking? [/quote]

That's a bit irrelevant isn't it? [/quote]

I'm not sure it is. Take a look from a different angle. Lets suppose the price of entry was £150. But that included theme park entry, car parking, all food and drink, all video games, all skill games on the park, and as much as you could carry from the shops. Ridiculous? Maybe, but we would get the other end of the same arguement. The "I dont need all that, why should I pay for it?"

Now they could just add the car parking onto the entry price. But maybe that pushes them over the price point they want to acheive on the entry. Price points are very important for most companies that sell to the general public. This may well be the reason why they are currently showing all the prices excluding VAT. Sort of a statement of "our price point is this, but the tax man add this. The current on the day entry at approx £40 is obviously too high and is why they offer the discounts. The leaflets would need to be printed anyway in the general course of any marketing programme, so why not make it look like its a baragin in the process.

If the people who used public transport to get to AT, found o that the price of the entry had gone up significantly and said "now includes car parking". Would they complain?

I highly doubt it affects Alton as much as it does us. They already make a decent amount of profit each year.

This is not bourne out on the annual report for 2009 which shows a £23.7m loss for the year (excluding exceptionals) which was slightly higer (ie more negative) than last year. This is for the whole of the Merlin Group and the majority of the overall loss is made up of the financing cost of the loans. Earnings before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortisation were up on 2008 and net revenues in the UK were up, so its not bad news by any stretch of the imagination. The 2010 half year report also mentions new equity partners, but whether this is to support a refinancing deal or to support new aquisition is unclear.

My source Here

I know it looks like I'm Merlins bigest fan, and I assure you I am neither one way or another. I do like to try to see if there is any reasonable explanation before deciding that its a money grab. It may well turn out that this is the case, which would be poor as I am sure that there are better ways of generating additional revenue.

Badgy

[mezza]

I normally don't really have much of an issue with AT price rises - it is just business at the end of the day, and I think all in all, a day at AT still, *just about* represents good value.

However, this parking price rise does seem hard to take. It would be fine if:

a) there had been major investment in the park this year, but all the investment has gone into other revenue-generating activities (shops, restaurants, merchandise, arcade games..)

b) There were reasonable alternatives to getting to AT (public transport)

c) AT were generating funds from parking specifically to reinvest in public transport solutions (they currently have no plans to do so)

There's NO WAY the park can pretend the parking charge is about anything other than revenue generation. And all the carping about VAT does seem a bit rich.


I get why parking jumps by 1 pound each time (so there's less fiddling about with change etc) but if you're going to jump by a pound when you up the price, it's only reasonable to up the price every five years or so.

[Big Dave]

Don't forget that now more people will probably be paying the parking charge too. I dont see how they can justify this rise. Seems daft.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk

[Tom G]

Those figures are quite confusing, have they made £255m profit or a £23m loss? I hated business studies at AS level, couldn't stand the teacher and I think that's why I could be described as having a dislike for Nick Varney...

I don't know how many cars on average come in a season, but I'd estimate a £1 hike would bring in an extra £500,000 per year at least. Not a bad revenue increase at just the snap of a finger.

Today I e-mailed them:

Dear Liz,

I understand that standard parking at the Alton Towers Resort has this year
increased to £6 from last year's £5.

I was wondering if you (or the relevant person if not yourself,
could you please forward this e-mail on) would be able to explain the reasons
behind this increase, which is 20%.

There are very little public transport alternatives in place that enable easy
access to Alton Towers. The cost of all aspects of motoring, notably fuel, are
also continuing to escalate.

It could be interpreted that the parking price increase is seen as a soft
target to increase revenue without any justification in the form of improved
facilities etc.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,


Tom Green

Their (assumed pre-prepared) response was:

Dear Mr Green,

Many thanks for your email. We always pay attention to the way our guests feel about any changes made in the Resort, and your comments will form a valuable part of the review of this particular change.

It is not unusual for car parking to be charged at major attra_ctions and we reassess all of our pricing at the start of the year to take into account the various increases in services and utilities, not to mention VAT and other taxes.

This charge is reinvested, improving the infrastructure and services of the resort – and into constantly adding to and improving the attractions on offer such as the ‘GO!GO!GO! SHOW’ which is a West End show that we are staging in the Cloud Cuckoo Land Theatre; additional Pirate Shows in Mutiny Bay and new Street Theatre characters.

We believe that the Alton Towers Resort represents excellent value for money for a unique short break for the whole family, with over 50 world class rides and attra_ctions, including our newest addition, TH13TEEN; Sharkbait Reef by Sealife our indoor aquarium; Extraordinary Golf, two hotels, Europe’s largest indoor Waterpark, and a luxurious Spa all sitting in 500 acres of glorious Staffordshire countryside. There is no other resort or attraction in the UK with facilities to match ours and we offer very keenly priced packages on line, including accommodation and park access. We believe that during times of economic hardship people will still want to treat themselves to days out and short breaks, and they will continue to visit places that they know will give them the best quality experience.

Best regards,


Dom Harding
Guest Services | Alton Towers Resort

[Adam James]

At which point in that generic letter did Guest Services refer to the question in hand, and not on their many rides and attra_ctions?

[Tom G]

...and why does attractions always appear as attra_ctions on Merlin correspondence!?

[Badgy]

[quote=""Tom G""]Those figures are quite confusing, have they made £255m profit or a £23m loss?[/quote]

A quick reply (so as not to drift off topic too much) is that if Merlin had no loans, no corporation tax to pay and no depreciation on their assets, then they would have made a profit of £255m. Altough I dont know what depreciation method Merlin use on their assets, it would not be unreasonable to think that Nemesis is still sat on the balance sheet with a considerable value.

The reply you received was probably a prepared statement, and didnt contain anything major as a surprise. When they state that most attractions charge for parking, I've been trying to think of what the balance of those that do and those that dont actually is.

Badgy

[siralgenon]

They're taking it too far now, £6.oo to park your car is just stupid, there's not even a new attraction and they've still put it up! And to be honest your just as thick yourself if your paying £16.oo for express parking! [-X

[MPDarby]

[quote=""Tom G""] We believe that during times of economic hardship people will still want to treat themselves to days out and short breaks, and they will continue to visit places that they know will give them the best quality experience.
[/quote]

Basically, let's get every penny out of the public we can and rip them off!

I understand that AT are a business and every business needs to make money, but surely providing value for money makes more sense?!? The average family will only visit once a year and will want to enjoy a day out. If they feel they've had good value for money they may well think we'll go back next year or even later in the season. Surely that will make them more money in the long run and is better business sense!

[venny911]

It appears that at the moment Alton and Merlin in general are adopting a Disney-style pricing strategy of upping prices consistently to the point of 'what the market can bear'. Unfortunately Merlin do not invest the multiple millions of dollars into their parks on an annual basis or provide anywhere near the service or experience Disney do to match the price increases.

[James]

[quote=""Badgy""][quote=""James""][quote=""Badgy""]Quick question. Out of the 70 or so people that atteneded the opening day meet, how many actually paid for car parking? [/quote]

That's a bit irrelevant isn't it? [/quote]

I'm not sure it is. Take a look from a different angle. Lets suppose the price of entry was £150. But that included theme park entry, car parking, all food and drink, all video games, all skill games on the park, and as much as you could carry from the shops. Ridiculous? Maybe, but we would get the other end of the same arguement. The "I dont need all that, why should I pay for it?"

Now they could just add the car parking onto the entry price. But maybe that pushes them over the price point they want to acheive on the entry. Price points are very important for most companies that sell to the general public. This may well be the reason why they are currently showing all the prices excluding VAT. Sort of a statement of "our price point is this, but the tax man add this. The current on the day entry at approx £40 is obviously too high and is why they offer the discounts. The leaflets would need to be printed anyway in the general course of any marketing programme, so why not make it look like its a baragin in the process.

If the people who used public transport to get to AT, found o that the price of the entry had gone up significantly and said "now includes car parking". Would they complain?[/quote]

That's still irrelevant though, you just seem to be generalizing again. If there was a ticket that included parking, theme park entry, all food and drink available there would still be members on here with Annual Passes that includes the parking and extras. Since you cut the bit out after the start of my paragraph I was just referring to that TTF members aren't really the group of people to ask on how many paid for parking considering many on here already have Annual Passes that include this and there are car shares.

Referring to the £150 ticket idea, yes it is a bit ridiculous. While some may see it as a bargain as in theory it would feel like a valued day out but then there would be no need. People visit Alton for different things, some do not want to eat food, some do not want to play in the arcades and so on.

I understand that they would not add the parking charge onto the ticket price, but why shouldn't they? They could easily add the charge on but still use this to their advantage in marketing the ticket prices. May be an idea such as the one used for Scarefest mazes. They could have a ticket that includes parking at around £45.50 and then another type of ticket just for theme park entry at £42, it's only a small saving but this would in theory make the ticket including the parking the better offer making it become the more popular ticket and in return making more money for Alton without upsetting guests so much. If it was marketed in such a way that wouldn't upset the visitors that rely on public transport or the visitors who park(which in marketing these days is easy to achieve) then everyone's happy.

I'm sorry but this VAT crap it just a way for them to make out that they charge everything quite cheaply, Alton religiously add so much money onto the tickets each year, this VAT stuff is just a way to hide the in your face money grabbing.


[quote=""Badgy""]This is not bourne out on the annual report for 2009 which shows a £23.7m loss for the year (excluding exceptionals) which was slightly higer (ie more negative) than last year. This is for the whole of the Merlin Group and the majority of the overall loss is made up of the financing cost of the loans. Earnings before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortisation were up on 2008 and net revenues in the UK were up, so its not bad news by any stretch of the imagination. The 2010 half year report also mentions new equity partners, but whether this is to support a refinancing deal or to support new aquisition is unclear.

My source Here
[/quote]
I have nothing to say that(mainly because I have nothing constructive to add :P ) apart from that this extra £1 I highly doubt has anything to do with that. It's just another "Oh, if we raise this up by a £1 we will make x amount of money each year and most guests won't raise an eyelid".

I originally thought that the parking charge was put in place for the originally planned relief road to be constructed (not sure if that's true or not?) but since they've dropped the plans for that the parking charge remains to be put in place and has risen in price. I think they just see it as an easy money maker. If they can achieve £48,000 on a peak day from parking alone why get rid of it? It's a easy way to fill up their pockets, the new extra £1 means that on peak days they will make £8000 more, quite easy money I think and not something that will go unnoticed by many.

[quote=""Tom G""]...and why does attractions always appear as attra_ctions on Merlin correspondence!? [/quote]
Instead of posting your full post just quoting this. That was simply a terrible automated reply. :P All they've done is grabbed a automated reply out what they've probably got a whole load of and edited a few words in there. You ask about car parking charges and they send you a load of crap about the park's offerings which you probably already know (or don't want to know). I think it's terrible that the PR Manager has simply forwarded it to guest services, just pure laziness if I'm being honest.

[forestcarl]

When i was working on the car parks,when the charge was £4 the annual profit was £1.5m.

Everywhere you look around the park now there's something to get every last penny from you.