Disabled policy change?

[Tom G]

This is not an area where I know anything about, really, but I was just browsing the Merlin Annual Pass Facebook page and saw a fairly concerning post from a guy called Craig Cowley. If someone read it and the responses from Theresa Cornwell, I'd appreciate it if any light could be shed on this apparent change or any other thoughts on what they're saying?

[AstroDan]

The policy has, quite rightly, changed.

The system was suffering a lot of abuse due to the fact that anyone with any form of "disability" - no matter how minor - was exasperating the main queues.

The policy was never about "skipping waiting times" - it was mainly down to accessibility. So, guests with genuine disabilities can still enter via ride exits - but others must queue as normal. Also, guests will have to wait the equivalent queue time before going into the exit.

It is to a) improve the experience for all guests and b) prevent abuse.

[pillsburyb]

I've just read it and understand what they are talking about but I am going to refrain from commenting about it as my response could be seen as controversial

[AstroDan]

If you are a genuine disabled guest, there is still a system in place so you can enjoy your day.

They are just moving away from the what was basically 'free fastrack' for such guests to a newer policy which is fairer for all guests.

[pillsburyb]

[quote=""AstroDan""]The policy has, quite rightly, changed.

The system was suffering a lot of abuse due to the fact that anyone with any form of "disability" - no matter how minor - was exasperating the main queues.

The policy was never about "skipping waiting times" - it was mainly down to accessibility. So, guests with genuine disabilities can still enter via ride exits - but others must queue as normal. Also, guests will have to wait the equivalent queue time before going into the exit.

It is to a) improve the experience for all guests and b) prevent abuse.

[/quote]

Pretty much what I wanted to say but alot more diplomatic

[Tom G]

Thanks very much! Always great to get more than one perspective on an issue before passing judgment!

Just one question, how do they ensure someone waits the equivalent queue time? Literally just say come back in 30 minutes etc?

[AstroDan]

I am unsure, but I presume there is some kind of form that is used by the ride host/team...

Also, if you are deaf etc. there are special wristbands. So you queue as normal, but when at the station the ride team can deal with you sensitively and professionally by seeing you have the wristband.

[TB2]

[quote=""Tom G""]Thanks very much! Always great to get more than one perspective on an issue before passing judgment!

Just one question, how do they ensure someone waits the equivalent queue time? Literally just say come back in 30 minutes etc?[/quote]

If its like the Thorpe/Cwoa systems, a disabled person will have a wristband and the group will have a piece of card. A time equivalent of the queueline will be writen (so say its 10am and Nemesis has a 20 minute queue, they can't ride another main ride until 10:20). It works okay actually.

[Alex Tyler]

[quote=""TB2""]
If its like the Thorpe/Cwoa systems, a disabled person will have a wristband and the group will have a piece of card. A time equivalent of the queueline will be writen (so say its 10am and Nemesis has a 20 minute queue, they can't ride another main ride until 10:20). It works okay actually.[/quote]

That is spot on, the 'main' rides are Sonic Air Nemesis Oblivion (come March) 13 and Rita.

On Friday (old system) I did 19 rides

Yesterday (new system) I did 31 rides

Today (new system) I did 33 rides

[AstroDan]

If there are no queues, it makes no difference. It just means on busy days, when there's a 90 minute queue say, people using the exits cannot take the mickey.

[Vicki]

Dan, a quick question as you seem quite knowledgeable

As some know, I'm visually impaired, but often visit with a friend with CP, who uses a wheelchair. These new bands for those who are deaf etc, would it, on my next visit, be worth me getting one so that in the event of an evac (where chances are, I won't have my glasses), they know? Or am I getting the wrong idea with the new bands?

TBH, the only problem I can see is for those with a condition like autism, where the waiting between rides could prove difficult. But I'm no expert on that so could be totally wrong.

[MinteButtons]

With Autism, it depends entirely on the individuals needs.
Both of my sisters have it, one of them is fine is busy situations, but the other finds busy situations very stressfully and normally it gets too much and she has to leave.

Just clearing that up.

[Vicki]

[quote=""MinteButtons""]With Autism, it depends entirely on the individuals needs.
Both of my sisters have it, one of them is fine is busy situations, but the other finds busy situations very stressfully and normally it gets too much and she has to leave.

Just clearing that up. [/quote]

Thank you As I said in my post, I'm no expert but know waiting can cause problems for some, as can confined spaces like some of the queue lines at AT

[Vicki]

Ah but you see, this is where it becomes interesting. My visual problems stop me driving, but I can get around fine without any assistance. I will admit, I've used the system, only when in a small group (3 max) and it didn't feel right, so I stopped doing it. Plus I got abuse shouted my way from people because to look at me, I don't "look" disabled. So, this new band, I think is going to be great for those like me.

I feel I probably did count as someone who abused the system when I used it, however, I must admit it did cut out some things I struggle with, like the fact that the Nemesis queue steps have no yellow markings on the edge, or the uneven floor in Duel, but I can honestly say, I think this new system is better.

[jordanc14]

Just a thought for people abusing the disabled entrances, how would it work if someone had just gone to Alton towers in a wheelchair acting as though they had a valid reason for being in a wheelchair would they still be classed as "disabled" meaning they can use the disabled entrance?

[mal30]

In response to the question about whether someone in a wheelchair can turn up and get a wristband, the new policy states that the person in question must either have a blue badge (parking permit that is awarded to disabled people) or a letter from their consultant or gp detailing their medical condition with photographic evidence of who that person is attached.

I am an obviously physically disabled person with a blue badge so this will not affect me but the issue is for people who suffer from severe and prolonged mental illnesses such as psychosis/schizophrenia also autism/aspergers etc, they are now required to bring in a letter to hand over to a complete stranger detailing what their illness exactly is. If you think of the stigma attached to illnesses such as these, you can understand why there will be a lot of disabled people upset about these changes.

In the past you either had to provide the blue badge or a letter showing that you were entitled to Disability Living Allowance which was open to a lot of abuse by people bringing in relatives letters as there are no pictures etc to prove who that person actually is. My question is why they didn't just change the policy to making the people with the DLA letter bring in photographic proof of who they are eg driving license/ passport etc instead of demanding to know what someone's exact illness is? I must admit it does seem like an infringement of privacy to me.

The other major change that they have made to the disabled policy is that now disabled people have to pay the same charge of parking as able bodied people. This may be fair in some peoples eyes, but as a wheelchair user, i can not use half as many rides as an able bodied person due to the access of the ride itself, and i cannot get around the lovely gardens so i do feel that this policy is not very fair at all. I feel that either Alton Towers need to do a lot of work to their policies, or improve the access for disabled people to make it fairer for all.

[TB2]

The only solver to this would be to scrap the non rap ride system and instead place the Tussauds restrction back into play that you cannot use the same ride again for 2 hours or a standard wait time for ANY ride introduced suggested 15-30 minutes wait for non busy periods and 30-45 minutes wait for busy periods.

It is very impracticable to expect the disabled guest to just sit around waiting doing nothing during busy periods with the ever changing scenario of the current queuelength times.

I mean I have regulary used the rap ride system at Thorpe/Chessington and given my card to the ride host to mark the current queue length of around 1 hour, only to come of the ride and then find the expected current queuelength to be showing 30 minutes wait! due to the current queuelengths not being updated in real time/breakdowns etc.

Just a few thoughts. If they scrapped the rap system they have in place and say "come back in two hours", well staff on rides regularly change position on the ride, or go on break or just don't remember every single disabled group that comes on the ride. It would be impossible to monitor that which is why in the old days, exit queues at rides were insane. I remember once, the disabled queue was all the way down Fury's exit and into the main plaza.

Another thought is, granted you may have a 90 minute wait for the next ride. But at the end of the day (if I take Chessington as an example), it was only on ten rides so you could quite easily go on other attractions in the park which don't have any exit restrictions. Compare that to main queue guests who have to queue 90 minutes for one, 20 for the next, 30 for the third. If I was working on the Runaway Train, it had no queue and a wristband rider came with a card saying next ride in an hours time, I'd have no qualms letting you on as its just common sense from the platformers perspective.

As someone put it, fastrack buyers can spend £100 and jump from ride to ride with little to no wait. But they have just squandered several days wage on something that rewards impatience. Wristband riders in comparison get treated very well. The system isn't perfect and is consistently evaluted by the ride teams.

[furie]

[quote=""Vicki""]
I feel I probably did count as someone who abused the system when I used it, however, I must admit it did cut out some things I struggle with, like the fact that the Nemesis queue steps have no yellow markings on the edge, or the uneven floor in Duel, but I can honestly say, I think this new system is better.[/quote]

I'm all in favour of the changes, I do think there should definitely be a delay between rides, and having seen it in action at Thorpe it's good. Vicki raises an issue for my sister in law (Step-sister-in-law_furie ).

She has Usher's syndrome which not only made her deaf from birth, but completely night blind, severe tunnel vision and major balance issues. Essentially, the Nemesis queue line is dangerous for her. In low light, it's potentially deadly. The same can be said for a few queues around the country, but particularly low lit queues and ones with steep angles and steps.

It's one example of where things are woolly and where the staff will struggle. She could get a proof of Usher's Syndrome, but the extent of the disability varies queue to queue. She can walk (though often needs to hold on to somebody due to the tunnel vision and balance issues), so doesn't have a blue card.

So, the issue is... If she was told she had to use the Nemesis main queue and fell, do Alton Towers take full responsibility for not allowing her access to the exit? However, she's perfectly capable of (in good light) managing say the Rita queue.

I think there will always be grey areas like this and Alton certainly have to take a wide line on this. I think; if it's like Thorpe, Chessington and Legoland; the staff will be very flexible on this and will openly avoid confrontation on the issue. It will put off people who simply abuse the system by turning up in a wheelchair. If there's no benefit in doing it (the delayed ride time), then people wont. Confronting guests though with in depth questions to the degree and intensity of their disability is a little bit 'off'. How many may turn up with perfectly good reasons not to queue but not have all the correct paperwork? Do you need to make a special doctors appointment to get a letter to recommend you don't queue prior to your visit? How many people would do that?

So yeah, I think (as the other parks have discovered) it's a flawed system that they don't stick to (in terms of "proof"), but one that works in making it fairer to everyone else for the queue time.

I know at Thorpe, it was simple. If you're first ride was Saw, you went up the exit at 10:00 a.m. and if the queue was estimated at 1:30, then they wrote "Saw - 10:00 a.m; 1:30" or something similar. So you couldn't use another "queue skip" until 11:30 a.m.

Very fair, and it gives the disabled party the chance to do all the things that may otherwise delay them (traversing the park, etc).

[thefatone]

Damos1 - sorry couldn't read your entire thing because it was difficult, however:

The policy is for people who can't join the queue - the system is basically pretending they've joined the queue.

A group split up - they all go to nemesis, half join the main queue which says 40mins. Other half go on via exit, the pass is written 40mins..

They then decide to go on air - the Disabled rider can only then use air at the same time as the group who used main queue. As they have "queued" the correct time.

It's so its fairer on the normal queuer - positive discrimination is still discrimination.

[TheMan]

Let me clear this up for you bandwaggoners.

I have mentioned before, my partners disability - this system does NOT suit Alton Towers because it is so spread out and difficult to access. My partner would do Nemmy, and perhaps Air - and THEN require a good rest, and a long saunter to another ride. We also tended to go round, to do the ones she could do, and I would pop off and do an occasional ride such as Rita, of which the forces (at the back, where the disabled people have to ride) are way to strong.

So now, instead of being able to go around, do a couple of rides in one area, then move on - we have to go round and round what is a HUGE area. With a scooter, the Skyride isn't suitable, you cannot access the gardens, and your day is EXTREMELY limited.

Yet again, because a few idiots abuse the system they change to something COMPLETELY inappropriate for a park as spread out as Alton Towers is. No common sense whatsover.

Oh and by the way, my partner WAS "able bodied", and you quickly learn when it happens to you just what a horrid impact it has on your lives, and how the occasional day out at Alton Towers (which even using rides minimally, can result in a week of virtual immobility), can make a huge difference.

In the past I have actually praised Merlin for their attitudes, and this system works BRILLIANT at Chessie where the rides aren't as spread out, and much easier to access in general, but for Alton Towers it is RIDICULOUS.

Also, we tended to arrive late. go around and do a few rides and then GO HOME early as we were very conscious of not taking the pee - this is going to make it pretty much impossible for us to visit AT now. If enforced sensibly, the last method was perfect - typical, unintelligent, knee-jerk BS.

To those "praising" what will cause many huge issues, the shoe might be on the other foot one day... it happened to us!

TheMan