Nemesis and Oblivion costs include excavation and theming, but the cost of construction is much more expensive nowadays. Even since Air was built.
This is why I think B&M isn't likely to be the manufacturer. I may be wrong, but time will tell. If they use a cheeper company, at least then the theming can be far more imersive as the concept art has shown previously.
SW6 Ride Discussion
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shawnoc
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rightbackgranty
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I dont see why people are saying that the cost of themeing for SW6 will be excessive.
OK, there is a faux gothic station building to be built, which is quite large, and a set of "front gates" for the queueline. Themeing will also have to take place inside, and in the "indoor section" towards the end of the ride.
However, there doesnt need to be a great deal of themeing for the rest of the ride. The ride utilises what is already there - sharp drops through trees. It could be one of the best themed rides that the park has, without the need for much additional themeing.
I cant see the themeing costing a great deal more than the £2.5million mark. Im sure I'll be heavily contested, but just my point of view.
OK, there is a faux gothic station building to be built, which is quite large, and a set of "front gates" for the queueline. Themeing will also have to take place inside, and in the "indoor section" towards the end of the ride.
However, there doesnt need to be a great deal of themeing for the rest of the ride. The ride utilises what is already there - sharp drops through trees. It could be one of the best themed rides that the park has, without the need for much additional themeing.
I cant see the themeing costing a great deal more than the £2.5million mark. Im sure I'll be heavily contested, but just my point of view.
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leroy2009jones
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B&M have only built Coasters in the UK at Alton and one at Thorpe.
They are very loyal to us and haven't built since Air. We are well overdue our next secret weapon, if anything B&M have set the benchmark for Secret Weapons by the simple fact they are a B&M. Anyone stating that they don't believe this could be made by B&M are simply narrow minded.
They are very loyal to us and haven't built since Air. We are well overdue our next secret weapon, if anything B&M have set the benchmark for Secret Weapons by the simple fact they are a B&M. Anyone stating that they don't believe this could be made by B&M are simply narrow minded.
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El Patricko
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SW6 will have to be "very" quiet as it resides (or will in about 4 months) at about 700m away on the edge of the valley as can be seen on the plan's reference points in pic 11.
It seems logical to construct the latter part of the track-work in the first phase of the lifting plan. Thats i assume if they plan on lifting from the main site, there is no doubt this will be an interesting project with all the foliage looming overhead.
The budget is never what it's supposed to be at the end of the day. And i wouldn't be surprised if SW6 exceeded it's budget by quite a handsome margin with all the effects and problems that could potentially arise.
I guarantee that this ride will not be a B&M creation, as it currently stands the plans and the fact that they used either X no way out, colossus for sound testing suggests that the ride type will not be B&M. As for track re-design, i can see a valid point raised about the fact that B&M have long lifespans and aren't being dismantled like other old rides but to change your track design takes years of research if they have this new track "ready" then surely they could have warned us all about the reccesion. Either that or they have telepathic business acumen.
I know this sounds arrogant but, nonetheless, Mack.
It seems logical to construct the latter part of the track-work in the first phase of the lifting plan. Thats i assume if they plan on lifting from the main site, there is no doubt this will be an interesting project with all the foliage looming overhead.
The budget is never what it's supposed to be at the end of the day. And i wouldn't be surprised if SW6 exceeded it's budget by quite a handsome margin with all the effects and problems that could potentially arise.
I guarantee that this ride will not be a B&M creation, as it currently stands the plans and the fact that they used either X no way out, colossus for sound testing suggests that the ride type will not be B&M. As for track re-design, i can see a valid point raised about the fact that B&M have long lifespans and aren't being dismantled like other old rides but to change your track design takes years of research if they have this new track "ready" then surely they could have warned us all about the reccesion. Either that or they have telepathic business acumen.
I know this sounds arrogant but, nonetheless, Mack.
"If Alton Towers get a shrek 4d attraction next year i, El Patricko will eat a steak garnished with pond weed"
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Skumfidus
[quote=""leroy2009jones""]B&M have only built Coasters in the UK at Alton and one at Thorpe.
They are very loyal to us and haven't built since Air. We are well overdue our next secret weapon, if anything B&M have set the benchmark for Secret Weapons by the simple fact they are a B&M. Anyone stating that they don't believe this could be made by B&M are simply narrow minded.[/quote]
I don't think anyone is saying B&M couldn't make SW6, it's just highly unlikely, and as has been said countless times now, I'd prefer it NOT to be a B&M as almost every other Manufactuer out there has lots more experience with this kind of coaster, and will probably do a better job!
B&M are awesome, but they are awesome at making specific coasters, I'd have a lot of faith in a B&M prototype that is a step on from their current designs....but a total overhaul? They have shown not one piece of working technology compatible with SW6, it will need different brakes, different feeder wheels, different cars, different track design (so potentially risking B&M smoothness).....it's such an obvious flaw in the 'Leroy School Of Thought' and I'm amazed to still see people using Air, Oblivion and Nemesis as indicators of B&Ms work, and pretending like SW6 will feature all of their qualities just because the same company made them!
Think about the moaning people do regarding Air....that's a B&M, yet no one here seems to like it! And Air was the biggest step forward B&M ever took! So we're looking at SW6, which if a B&M will be a step forward 300000 times greater then Air, and people are still raising their arms to the heavens in glee!
And to look into the statements regarding B&M wanting/needing to change to suit the economy....codswallop. B&M don't need to change a thing, parks are queuing up for a slice of the B&M action, and will until another company takes the crown.
Cost isn't really an issue as such....a B&M is a sound investment, and the global economy (or the media induced, premature panic we call the 'credit crunch') makes no difference to B&M's customers, if a theme park wants a B&M, it will have one, it isn't usually the park paying, so the evidence B&M have shown for their crowd pulling abilities and reliability makes investors more likely to delve deep into their pockets for one!
And we've circled back to the main point of this little essay. B&M are prosperous because they create reliable, high quality attractions, and have a tidy portfolio to back it up. Parks trust them, investors trust them, and the public trust them, they work hard on subtly adapting their winning formula to innovate and move forward while still retaining the safety of age old basics, and parks know this. They move forward....but not without caution...and it's this that makes them the best of the best.
Designing, building and slapping their name on SW6 leaves B&M open to stupidly high risk. Their fantastically strong brand, their portfolio of quality work & their reliability records could all fly out of the window....and in turn, they will lose the lead........reckless innovation in the face of financial hardships is indeed a false economy...and it certainly isn't the time to change your audience
They are very loyal to us and haven't built since Air. We are well overdue our next secret weapon, if anything B&M have set the benchmark for Secret Weapons by the simple fact they are a B&M. Anyone stating that they don't believe this could be made by B&M are simply narrow minded.[/quote]
I don't think anyone is saying B&M couldn't make SW6, it's just highly unlikely, and as has been said countless times now, I'd prefer it NOT to be a B&M as almost every other Manufactuer out there has lots more experience with this kind of coaster, and will probably do a better job!
B&M are awesome, but they are awesome at making specific coasters, I'd have a lot of faith in a B&M prototype that is a step on from their current designs....but a total overhaul? They have shown not one piece of working technology compatible with SW6, it will need different brakes, different feeder wheels, different cars, different track design (so potentially risking B&M smoothness).....it's such an obvious flaw in the 'Leroy School Of Thought' and I'm amazed to still see people using Air, Oblivion and Nemesis as indicators of B&Ms work, and pretending like SW6 will feature all of their qualities just because the same company made them!
Think about the moaning people do regarding Air....that's a B&M, yet no one here seems to like it! And Air was the biggest step forward B&M ever took! So we're looking at SW6, which if a B&M will be a step forward 300000 times greater then Air, and people are still raising their arms to the heavens in glee!
And to look into the statements regarding B&M wanting/needing to change to suit the economy....codswallop. B&M don't need to change a thing, parks are queuing up for a slice of the B&M action, and will until another company takes the crown.
Cost isn't really an issue as such....a B&M is a sound investment, and the global economy (or the media induced, premature panic we call the 'credit crunch') makes no difference to B&M's customers, if a theme park wants a B&M, it will have one, it isn't usually the park paying, so the evidence B&M have shown for their crowd pulling abilities and reliability makes investors more likely to delve deep into their pockets for one!
And we've circled back to the main point of this little essay. B&M are prosperous because they create reliable, high quality attractions, and have a tidy portfolio to back it up. Parks trust them, investors trust them, and the public trust them, they work hard on subtly adapting their winning formula to innovate and move forward while still retaining the safety of age old basics, and parks know this. They move forward....but not without caution...and it's this that makes them the best of the best.
Designing, building and slapping their name on SW6 leaves B&M open to stupidly high risk. Their fantastically strong brand, their portfolio of quality work & their reliability records could all fly out of the window....and in turn, they will lose the lead........reckless innovation in the face of financial hardships is indeed a false economy...and it certainly isn't the time to change your audience
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kingda dude
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I also want to point out, that even if the blue prints could be Inaccurate they show that the ride is made out of a two rail track system like that on intamin tracks but without the third rail.
also B&M don't tend to stray much further than the conventional lift, dorp and loops method of roller coasters, the exception to this is Hulk, but if anything that is going to happen in the building I feel that B&M would be a bit reluctant to make it.
also B&M don't tend to stray much further than the conventional lift, dorp and loops method of roller coasters, the exception to this is Hulk, but if anything that is going to happen in the building I feel that B&M would be a bit reluctant to make it.
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leroy2009jones
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[quote=""Ryanfuk""][quote=""leroy2009jones""]B&M have only built Coasters in the UK at Alton and one at Thorpe.
They are very loyal to us and haven't built since Air. We are well overdue our next secret weapon, if anything B&M have set the benchmark for Secret Weapons by the simple fact they are a B&M. Anyone stating that they don't believe this could be made by B&M are simply narrow minded.[/quote]
Designing, building and slapping their name on SW6 leaves B&M open to stupidly high risk. Their fantastically strong brand, their portfolio of quality work & their reliability records could all fly out of the window....and in turn, they will lose the lead........reckless innovation in the face of financial hardships is indeed a false economy...and it certainly isn't the time to change your audience[/quote]
2.74% of ALL B&M's rollercoasters have been prototypes at Alton Towers.
Since the creation of Oblivion they made a further 5 Dive Machines (6.94%), and since Air a further 6 Flying Coasters (8.33%) the other 82% are Stand up, Floorless, Inverted, Sitting, and Hyper.
So to make a statement like the above is ridiculous.
They are very loyal to us and haven't built since Air. We are well overdue our next secret weapon, if anything B&M have set the benchmark for Secret Weapons by the simple fact they are a B&M. Anyone stating that they don't believe this could be made by B&M are simply narrow minded.[/quote]
Designing, building and slapping their name on SW6 leaves B&M open to stupidly high risk. Their fantastically strong brand, their portfolio of quality work & their reliability records could all fly out of the window....and in turn, they will lose the lead........reckless innovation in the face of financial hardships is indeed a false economy...and it certainly isn't the time to change your audience[/quote]
2.74% of ALL B&M's rollercoasters have been prototypes at Alton Towers.
Since the creation of Oblivion they made a further 5 Dive Machines (6.94%), and since Air a further 6 Flying Coasters (8.33%) the other 82% are Stand up, Floorless, Inverted, Sitting, and Hyper.
So to make a statement like the above is ridiculous.
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Rob L
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[quote=""leroy2009jones""][quote=""Ryanfuk""][quote=""leroy2009jones""]B&M have only built Coasters in the UK at Alton and one at Thorpe.
They are very loyal to us and haven't built since Air. We are well overdue our next secret weapon, if anything B&M have set the benchmark for Secret Weapons by the simple fact they are a B&M. Anyone stating that they don't believe this could be made by B&M are simply narrow minded.[/quote]
Designing, building and slapping their name on SW6 leaves B&M open to stupidly high risk. Their fantastically strong brand, their portfolio of quality work & their reliability records could all fly out of the window....and in turn, they will lose the lead........reckless innovation in the face of financial hardships is indeed a false economy...and it certainly isn't the time to change your audience[/quote]
2.74% of ALL B&M's rollercoasters have been prototypes at Alton Towers.
Since the creation of Oblivion they made a further 5 Dive Machines (6.94%), and since Air a further 6 Flying Coasters (8.33%) the other 82% are Stand up, Floorless, Inverted, Sitting, and Hyper.
So to make a statement like the above is ridiculous.[/quote]
The point is that IF this is a B&M, although it would be a prototype, in a way it would be more than that due to how different it would be to any other B&Ms. SW6 looks nothing like any other B&M seen before, it would be a risk for them as they have no experience in these types of coaster. Of course it could work out really well for them and they could end up selling a load of similar coaster, but then again it could be a rough boring coaster that no-one likes, and we're not going to know which of those is going to be true until this coaster opens.
Just because B&M are involved it doesn't mean instant success, there are many things that can go wrong. I'd still prefer an Intamin Mega-Lite, and like I've said before it seems much more likely. But I suppose we'll have to wait and see.
They are very loyal to us and haven't built since Air. We are well overdue our next secret weapon, if anything B&M have set the benchmark for Secret Weapons by the simple fact they are a B&M. Anyone stating that they don't believe this could be made by B&M are simply narrow minded.[/quote]
Designing, building and slapping their name on SW6 leaves B&M open to stupidly high risk. Their fantastically strong brand, their portfolio of quality work & their reliability records could all fly out of the window....and in turn, they will lose the lead........reckless innovation in the face of financial hardships is indeed a false economy...and it certainly isn't the time to change your audience[/quote]
2.74% of ALL B&M's rollercoasters have been prototypes at Alton Towers.
Since the creation of Oblivion they made a further 5 Dive Machines (6.94%), and since Air a further 6 Flying Coasters (8.33%) the other 82% are Stand up, Floorless, Inverted, Sitting, and Hyper.
So to make a statement like the above is ridiculous.[/quote]
The point is that IF this is a B&M, although it would be a prototype, in a way it would be more than that due to how different it would be to any other B&Ms. SW6 looks nothing like any other B&M seen before, it would be a risk for them as they have no experience in these types of coaster. Of course it could work out really well for them and they could end up selling a load of similar coaster, but then again it could be a rough boring coaster that no-one likes, and we're not going to know which of those is going to be true until this coaster opens.
Just because B&M are involved it doesn't mean instant success, there are many things that can go wrong. I'd still prefer an Intamin Mega-Lite, and like I've said before it seems much more likely. But I suppose we'll have to wait and see.
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haydn!
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Does anyone know who built the teddy coaster in Towers Trading? I have a suspicious feeling that was an hidden secret message from the Towers management, and they will be the real manufacturer!
Now, all that seriousness aside... despite that email from B&M being very suggestive, it also could be just a general response. Neither denying outright, or admitting involvement in any project. They are most likely aware of the project, and most likely have been involved at some point (especially during the initial planning stages when the park probably approached several manufacturers). Also, this project is not exactly going unnoticed in the wider circles. I'd say it's going to be up there with Harry Potter as one of the most anticipated developments of 2010!
...wait's for someone to point out the Teddy Coaster features three B&M coasters...
Now, all that seriousness aside... despite that email from B&M being very suggestive, it also could be just a general response. Neither denying outright, or admitting involvement in any project. They are most likely aware of the project, and most likely have been involved at some point (especially during the initial planning stages when the park probably approached several manufacturers). Also, this project is not exactly going unnoticed in the wider circles. I'd say it's going to be up there with Harry Potter as one of the most anticipated developments of 2010!
...wait's for someone to point out the Teddy Coaster features three B&M coasters...
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furie
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[quote=""leroy2009jones""]
2.74% of ALL B&M's rollercoasters have been prototypes at Alton Towers.
Since the creation of Oblivion they made a further 5 Dive Machines (6.94%), and since Air a further 6 Flying Coasters (8.33%) the other 82% are Stand up, Floorless, Inverted, Sitting, and Hyper.
So to make a statement like the above is ridiculous.[/quote]
I do suspect a degree of trolling here, but I'll feed you just this once.
2.74%! That's such a convincingly high number - it HAS to be B&M! Statistics mean nothing - sense means everything.
How many rides like a Dive Machine existed before Oblivion? Zero!
How many rides like a Flyer existed before (they started designing, not constructing) air? Zero!
Both prototypes at Alton were brand new ride types, never before seen. B&M saw the potential in the designs to fit perfectly into their product portfolio because they were unlike anything anyone else was doing at the time (remember, design on air started many years before construction, Vekoma pipped them to the post because the B&M design is more complex).
Here it's being suggested that the latest B&M prototype is the same as a coaster that lots of other people produce. B&M are sure to innovate, I have no doubt about that - their innovation though will be in an area nobody else currently sits. They are not suddenly going to stop production on their popular coasters (which they're turning down orders for) to produce the same old thing everyone else does. It just does not make any sense at all.
I'm just repeating myself though. Footers will show non-B&M style supports going in, because the plans have a specific support structure in place. Track will be simple bi-rail, because the plans show it. Alton have to give something very close (if not identical) to the plans.
So all this eventually comes down to is Alton could have picked one of six manufacturers off the shelf to produce a coaster they do as bread and butter, but a good price. Or they could have asked B&M to prototype a coaster that mimics one of those six companies and take the risk of B&M not being able to do it.
Alton will look simply at the cost and risk and just not go with B&M. The other candidates are just perfect for them, B&M are totally wrong.
In business, if you have something that is cheap and sensible, and something that is high cost and high risk - yet both produce the same result - you go with cheap and sensible.
If it looks like a duck and goes quack - chances are, it's a duck!
2.74% of ALL B&M's rollercoasters have been prototypes at Alton Towers.
Since the creation of Oblivion they made a further 5 Dive Machines (6.94%), and since Air a further 6 Flying Coasters (8.33%) the other 82% are Stand up, Floorless, Inverted, Sitting, and Hyper.
So to make a statement like the above is ridiculous.[/quote]
I do suspect a degree of trolling here, but I'll feed you just this once.
2.74%! That's such a convincingly high number - it HAS to be B&M! Statistics mean nothing - sense means everything.
How many rides like a Dive Machine existed before Oblivion? Zero!
How many rides like a Flyer existed before (they started designing, not constructing) air? Zero!
Both prototypes at Alton were brand new ride types, never before seen. B&M saw the potential in the designs to fit perfectly into their product portfolio because they were unlike anything anyone else was doing at the time (remember, design on air started many years before construction, Vekoma pipped them to the post because the B&M design is more complex).
Here it's being suggested that the latest B&M prototype is the same as a coaster that lots of other people produce. B&M are sure to innovate, I have no doubt about that - their innovation though will be in an area nobody else currently sits. They are not suddenly going to stop production on their popular coasters (which they're turning down orders for) to produce the same old thing everyone else does. It just does not make any sense at all.
I'm just repeating myself though. Footers will show non-B&M style supports going in, because the plans have a specific support structure in place. Track will be simple bi-rail, because the plans show it. Alton have to give something very close (if not identical) to the plans.
So all this eventually comes down to is Alton could have picked one of six manufacturers off the shelf to produce a coaster they do as bread and butter, but a good price. Or they could have asked B&M to prototype a coaster that mimics one of those six companies and take the risk of B&M not being able to do it.
Alton will look simply at the cost and risk and just not go with B&M. The other candidates are just perfect for them, B&M are totally wrong.
In business, if you have something that is cheap and sensible, and something that is high cost and high risk - yet both produce the same result - you go with cheap and sensible.
If it looks like a duck and goes quack - chances are, it's a duck!
If you\'ve got a problem, stuff a worm in it!
Come and Visit the Family_Furie family review site here
Come and Visit the Family_Furie family review site here
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adsyrah
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[quote=""furie""]
Footers will show non-B&M style supports going in, because the plans have a specific support structure in place. Track will be simple bi-rail, because the plans show it. Alton have to give something very close (if not identical) to the plans.
[/quote]
This is the main point that people on here seem to ignore. British planning law is very strict.
If I applied for an extention on a house and built it slightly wider/longer/taller than was shown on the submitted drawings the council have the right to order me to pull it down.
The plans Alton have submitted are accurate. Otherwise they run the risk of p!ssing off the locals again and potentially lose a lot of money having to dismantle the ride.
Footers will show non-B&M style supports going in, because the plans have a specific support structure in place. Track will be simple bi-rail, because the plans show it. Alton have to give something very close (if not identical) to the plans.
[/quote]
This is the main point that people on here seem to ignore. British planning law is very strict.
If I applied for an extention on a house and built it slightly wider/longer/taller than was shown on the submitted drawings the council have the right to order me to pull it down.
The plans Alton have submitted are accurate. Otherwise they run the risk of p!ssing off the locals again and potentially lose a lot of money having to dismantle the ride.
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And.
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You can make statistics about just about anything you like to try and support a claim. 67.856% of people would agree with that. 
I would LOVE for this to be a B&M, but being a bit of a realist - realistically, it won't be - and there's several reasons for this:
1. Secret Weapon DOES NOT equal B&M. SWs 1 & 2 were not B&M rides - even though they were never built that fact remains.
2. The budget - I can't see that £12,000,000 would be enough to be honest. Prototypes are also notoriously expensive.
3. B&Ms order books - allegedly full for the next few years. Would they take a gamble to create a new prototype when they can carry on churning out the same models for a healthy income?
4. The noise. B&Ms are famously noisy - even when they're packed in with sand. Given that the ride is so very very close to the village, would they want to piss the locals off with a roar in their back gardens?
5. The bloody plans. I've been bleeting on about this point over and over, but people still seem to forget. As Adsyrah said, UK Planning Law is very strict. They cannot deviate from the width, length, height, shape, form of the ride at all. What you see on the plans is pretty much what we'll get - bar the several small changes made to the station building to appease the planners.
I would LOVE for this to be a B&M, but being a bit of a realist - realistically, it won't be - and there's several reasons for this:
1. Secret Weapon DOES NOT equal B&M. SWs 1 & 2 were not B&M rides - even though they were never built that fact remains.
2. The budget - I can't see that £12,000,000 would be enough to be honest. Prototypes are also notoriously expensive.
3. B&Ms order books - allegedly full for the next few years. Would they take a gamble to create a new prototype when they can carry on churning out the same models for a healthy income?
4. The noise. B&Ms are famously noisy - even when they're packed in with sand. Given that the ride is so very very close to the village, would they want to piss the locals off with a roar in their back gardens?
5. The bloody plans. I've been bleeting on about this point over and over, but people still seem to forget. As Adsyrah said, UK Planning Law is very strict. They cannot deviate from the width, length, height, shape, form of the ride at all. What you see on the plans is pretty much what we'll get - bar the several small changes made to the station building to appease the planners.
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Craig
Couldn't agree more And. The noise impact assessment was compared to X at Thorpe, and I would hardly class the noise it produces as anything near what a B+M produces, even, as And. said if it were sand filled.
The track profile in the plans is totally different to that of a B+M too. The highly detailed visual impact assessment included in the plans (which, don't forget was revisited in the addendum) would pretty much be null and void if B+M box track was used. Its completely different to that in the plans and the planning committee would have a legal field day with Alton Towers should it differ greatly from what is in the plans.
B+M were indeed pumping out prototypes in the past but they needed to innovate to increase both their portfolio and demand for their products. They're now at that stage where they can sit back on their laurels for a year or two with full order books from the likes of the US and in particular the Asian markets. I'm not expecting anything substantial for them until at least 2011 now.
We've already seen from additions group wide that we're moving back towards a ride being a whole experience from entrance to exit. The cash just would not be there to complete such an experience if we had such a premium manufacturer.
The track profile in the plans is totally different to that of a B+M too. The highly detailed visual impact assessment included in the plans (which, don't forget was revisited in the addendum) would pretty much be null and void if B+M box track was used. Its completely different to that in the plans and the planning committee would have a legal field day with Alton Towers should it differ greatly from what is in the plans.
B+M were indeed pumping out prototypes in the past but they needed to innovate to increase both their portfolio and demand for their products. They're now at that stage where they can sit back on their laurels for a year or two with full order books from the likes of the US and in particular the Asian markets. I'm not expecting anything substantial for them until at least 2011 now.
We've already seen from additions group wide that we're moving back towards a ride being a whole experience from entrance to exit. The cash just would not be there to complete such an experience if we had such a premium manufacturer.
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Mankey
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Can I just ask? To the people that want it to be B&M... WHY does it have to be B&M? A lot of people here will instantly assume "omg its gonna suck" if its not a B&M.
What do B&M give that other manufacturers don't, apart from a smooth and intense ride? (which some other manufacturers can pull off too.) Not really much else... lets be honest. B&M are amazing manufacturers don't get me wrong, but I just cannot see whats wrong with it being another manufacturer? Intamin, Mack, Vekoma... They're all amazing manufacturers and I just can't see why the ride would be any different if it were one of those. We have the plans, the plans show what it will look like, the ride path will be the same no matter what manufacturer it is, the ride experience will be the same no matter what manufacturer it is.
Tell me what difference it would make?!
Please, I beg, some of you just open your eyes a bit, step back and look at the situation a bit more. I've seen a number of people say "If its not a B&M I wont like it" which is think its highly prejudiced and quite ignorant if you ask me. I personally couldn't give a damn what manufacturer it is! As long as the ride is good thats all I care about! I'd like to know who it is, but I dont think it would be annoyed or upset if its any manufacturer I can think of, it'd just be a nice bit of information to know!
Either way, whatever happens happens, we end up with the ride we get so just wait and see.
What do B&M give that other manufacturers don't, apart from a smooth and intense ride? (which some other manufacturers can pull off too.) Not really much else... lets be honest. B&M are amazing manufacturers don't get me wrong, but I just cannot see whats wrong with it being another manufacturer? Intamin, Mack, Vekoma... They're all amazing manufacturers and I just can't see why the ride would be any different if it were one of those. We have the plans, the plans show what it will look like, the ride path will be the same no matter what manufacturer it is, the ride experience will be the same no matter what manufacturer it is.
Tell me what difference it would make?!
Please, I beg, some of you just open your eyes a bit, step back and look at the situation a bit more. I've seen a number of people say "If its not a B&M I wont like it" which is think its highly prejudiced and quite ignorant if you ask me. I personally couldn't give a damn what manufacturer it is! As long as the ride is good thats all I care about! I'd like to know who it is, but I dont think it would be annoyed or upset if its any manufacturer I can think of, it'd just be a nice bit of information to know!
Either way, whatever happens happens, we end up with the ride we get so just wait and see.
Back from hibernation!
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shawnoc
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The thing that makes me laugh, is that people are saying that the plans are just showing generic track and support. Why would the Alton Towers, the council etc issue out misleading plans for the public. Theses are the plans that the public have been commenting about!
The cost of producing and submitting those plans along alternative plans would be exessive.
The cost of producing and submitting those plans along alternative plans would be exessive.
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Maelstrom
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Although i don't expect SW6 to be B&M for most of the reason already posted, i have a few points-
1 Budget: No official budget has been releaed only what a local paper has printed so we can't just assume this is the rides budget
2 As for B&M order books full that is just rumours, remember that a large proportion of their order books was rides for Dubai including the Busch worlds of Discovery and vast amount of other parks, alot of these projects have been canceled, delayed or put on hold, Even the Universal park for 2010 is delayed until 2012. That now free's up alot of orders plus Six Flags are currently not ordering any B&M's and so far Merlin aren't (two of the big theme park opportators). Therefor B&M might start to look at new deigns in teh future to win back some of he Big Customers moving towards family rides.
1 Budget: No official budget has been releaed only what a local paper has printed so we can't just assume this is the rides budget
2 As for B&M order books full that is just rumours, remember that a large proportion of their order books was rides for Dubai including the Busch worlds of Discovery and vast amount of other parks, alot of these projects have been canceled, delayed or put on hold, Even the Universal park for 2010 is delayed until 2012. That now free's up alot of orders plus Six Flags are currently not ordering any B&M's and so far Merlin aren't (two of the big theme park opportators). Therefor B&M might start to look at new deigns in teh future to win back some of he Big Customers moving towards family rides.
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shawnoc
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That would cost them so much money to do this, as the plans that are set up for the box section tracks and supports will need to be alterd. Why spend out on this when they have a winning formular and have these order, even if they are delayed.
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WillXav
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Alton are not tied to B&M and they are free to choose whomever they desire. It's nice to see Alton if they were to choose different manufacturers other than B&M or Intamin.
There are plenty:
Maurer Sohne
Vekoma
S&S Power/Arrow
Mack
Gerstlauer
There are plenty:
Maurer Sohne
Vekoma
S&S Power/Arrow
Mack
Gerstlauer
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furie
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[quote=""Maelstrom""]
1 Budget: No official budget has been releaed only what a local paper has printed so we can't just assume this is the rides budget[/quote]
Russell Barnes told me £12,000,000 - in person. I'm not going to doubt him!
[quote=""Maelstrom""]
2 As for B&M order books full that is just rumours, remember that a large proportion of their order books was rides for Dubai including the Busch worlds of Discovery and vast amount of other parks, alot of these projects have been canceled, delayed or put on hold, Even the Universal park for 2010 is delayed until 2012. That now free's up alot of orders plus Six Flags are currently not ordering any B&M's and so far Merlin aren't (two of the big theme park opportators). Therefor B&M might start to look at new deigns in teh future to win back some of he Big Customers moving towards family rides.[/quote]
So, the orders were cancelled a few months ago, and this ride has been designed and ready for what? I'd say twelve months? Did B&M travel back in time to get the contract?
B&M will continue to do what they do until people no longer order from them. And believe me, cancelling an order will have still cost the parks. Busch and Universal will have had to pay B&M a fee to cancel the order. We'll never know what that is, but it's bound to be an amount B&M feel is reasonable for turning away other work.
I've no doubt B&M will come forward with more, fantastic new designs in the future. It's just that they won't do it to head into competition in the fiercest part of the market. They will differentiate themselves again, and give parks something that only B&M can offer. It's how they work, and it's how they have made their name and money.
1 Budget: No official budget has been releaed only what a local paper has printed so we can't just assume this is the rides budget[/quote]
Russell Barnes told me £12,000,000 - in person. I'm not going to doubt him!
[quote=""Maelstrom""]
2 As for B&M order books full that is just rumours, remember that a large proportion of their order books was rides for Dubai including the Busch worlds of Discovery and vast amount of other parks, alot of these projects have been canceled, delayed or put on hold, Even the Universal park for 2010 is delayed until 2012. That now free's up alot of orders plus Six Flags are currently not ordering any B&M's and so far Merlin aren't (two of the big theme park opportators). Therefor B&M might start to look at new deigns in teh future to win back some of he Big Customers moving towards family rides.[/quote]
So, the orders were cancelled a few months ago, and this ride has been designed and ready for what? I'd say twelve months? Did B&M travel back in time to get the contract?
B&M will continue to do what they do until people no longer order from them. And believe me, cancelling an order will have still cost the parks. Busch and Universal will have had to pay B&M a fee to cancel the order. We'll never know what that is, but it's bound to be an amount B&M feel is reasonable for turning away other work.
I've no doubt B&M will come forward with more, fantastic new designs in the future. It's just that they won't do it to head into competition in the fiercest part of the market. They will differentiate themselves again, and give parks something that only B&M can offer. It's how they work, and it's how they have made their name and money.
If you\'ve got a problem, stuff a worm in it!
Come and Visit the Family_Furie family review site here
Come and Visit the Family_Furie family review site here