SW6 Ride Discussion

General discussion regarding the UK's No.1 Theme Park. Talk about anything and everything Alton Towers here.
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mattbailey
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As I would like to see this be a B&M, I really am not sure if they would be so willing to change almost everything which makes a B&M a B&M to accommodate this ride. And on a reliability point, I'd rather have a non-prototype as they tend to be more reliable at first.... (bar Saw 8) ).
Last edited by mattbailey on Tue May 05, 2009 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dara
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I think the chances of it being a prototype, B&M or otherwise, are highly, highly likely, if not inevitable. I do agree though, with the reliability issue, and yes, personally i'd rather not have a prototype for that reason, but i think it will be
Kaycee

[quote=""Matt.C""]That email reply is odd, because they say that they can neither confirm nor deny involvement. They then go on to say you'll unfortunately have to wait until next year for the secret to be disclosed.

#1 Would they know it's a secret if they weren't involved?
#2 Why do they say unfortunately? I'm sure if they weren't involved they wouldn't be bothered if you had to wait until next year.

It's an odd email to say the least.[/quote]

I don't think it's an odd reply really.

1. They may not be involved, but they'll certainly be keeping an eye on everything that's going on in the industry - a secret new development at a park is not unusual in the industry and I'm sure they're aware of the development to at least an extent even if they're not involved!
2. I'm sure they say 'unfortunately' because they've cottoned on the inquiry is from an enthusiast who is obviously digging for information, and they've not been able to provide it - so it is unfortunate said enthusiast will have to simply wait to find out. :)
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Johno
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Any ride we get will be a prototype.

It's gonna have a drop section.
SAM93

I think it could be possible for the park to add two coasters in one season, bearing in mind SFMM did the same thing in 2001, with X and Deja Vu, at a huge cost as X alone cost them £30,000,000.

It is the parks 30th season and they have competition for Drayton Manor, so they want the season to go with a bang, making it one to remember. Over the past 4 years from 2006-2009 the park has spent around £15,000,000 - £20,000,000 on the new attractions and areas. compare this to around £25,000,000 which was spent on new rides and rethemes/relocations in the years between 1994 - 1997, and that doesn't even include the hotel! Also not forgetting a further £12,000,000 was spent only a year after this period on Oblivion.

Alton is gaining far more money now than it was during this period of great spending, so I fully believe that they can afford to do the two new coasters + one repainted coaster next year. It would probably cost at max around £20,000,000... If you think of it as being £12,000,00 for SW6, £2,000,00 for a Rite retheme + repaint, and £6,000,000 for a new coaster in the blackhole tent + theming.

I doubt it will happen, but as stated it could be possible for them to do it. I do not believe that Shawn would lie to us, but somebody may be lying to him. However the fact that it is the same person who told him of the sealife and Monorail rethemes makes this seem unlikely.

Damn this is so confusing.
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Johno
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What about a £30 million investment, for it's 30 years?
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Dan K
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[quote=""SAM93""]It is the parks 30th season and they have competition for Drayton Manor, so they want the season to go with a bang, making it one to remember.[/quote]
This is pure speculation (apart from the factual bit about the anniversary); Drayton Manor aren't holding a candle to Alton in either attractions line-up or reputation and don't pose a serious threat to take anything but a tiny amount of Alton Towers' customers away from them.

[quote=""SAM93""]Over the past 4 years from 2006-2009 the park has spent around £15,000,000 - £20,000,000 on the new attractions and areas. compare this to around £25,000,000 which was spent on new rides and rethemes/relocations in the years between 1994 - 1997, and that doesn't even include the hotel! Also not forgetting a further £12,000,000 was spent only a year after this period on Oblivion.[/quote]
You always have to think of things in business terms though. The Nineties saw a regeneration of the park led by Tussaud's, with ageing temporary rides replaced with more permanent additions. In order to truly establish themselves as one of the biggest tourist attractions in the country, they needed investment, and a lot of it. That meant also spending a huge amount of money on hotels to get into the short-break market.

Compare that to the present day: the resort is easily the most well-recognised theme park in the country. People know it exists and they know they will get a good day out there. Of course, the interest levels of the public have to be kept high, and big new rides every few years are an important factor in achieving that. But Alton Towers don't need two new roller coasters in 2010; financially it makes no sense because they're not trying to establish themselves, they're now trying to consolidate and build upon their current position.

They won't get double the new visitors in 2010 by adding a second new roller coaster. They'll have a hard time marketing two rides concurrently as you ideally need one focal point, be it an area or a ride. The only way around that would be, as mentioned, to stagger the rides' openings, but again, to what purpose? How would you justify significantly increasing the amount of money spent to the people holding the purse strings, when the return on the investment won't reflect it?

[quote=""SAM93""]Alton is gaining far more money now than it was during this period of great spending, so I fully believe that they can afford to do the two new coasters + one repainted coaster next year. It would probably cost at max around £20,000,000... If you think of it as being £12,000,00 for SW6, £2,000,00 for a Rite retheme + repaint, and £6,000,000 for a new coaster in the blackhole tent + theming.[/quote]
I said this elsewhere, but people seem to think it's a matter of Merlin writing a cheque for £x million to the companies involved, and the truth is, it doesn't work like that. Oblivion was still being paid for 8 years later.

As for poor Shawn, it seems like somebody's having a big laugh at his expense, which I'm sorry to see. Of course he'd never deliberately mislead people, I know he thinks what he's said is true. But it just isn't.


If you couldn't be bothered reading all that, I don't blame you.
In summary: just one new roller coaster in 2010, no it's not B&M.
Last edited by Dan K on Tue May 05, 2009 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SAM93

The £30 million could make some sense, could do some more developments around the park for that amount. Could also be used for some new train bodies for Rita, or even just new trains, as well as the Ug-Land retheme.

I think Rita would be better the old style accelerator restraints as well, it there a reason why it needs he over the shoulder harnesses. You would feel more free, and it may allow for some better ait time too!



Also as a response to the above I know that tis is purely speculationand is very unlikely... But as stated it is speculation so I was purely adding my oppinions on the matter however unlikely it may be.
Last edited by SAM93 on Tue May 05, 2009 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Russell
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IF this is true next year will be a very exciting time for the Towers :) Although one thing stands out to me and thats if/when we get a coaster in the BH tent surely Oblivion would get a re paint? Apart from the coaster surely thats all X-sector needs to be tidied up?
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Sam
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[quote=""Dan""]As for poor Shawn, it seems like somebody's having a big laugh at his expense, which I'm sorry to see. Of course he'd never deliberately mislead people, I know he thinks what he's said is true. But it just isn't.

If you couldn't be bothered reading all that, I don't blame you.
In summary: just one new roller coaster in 2010, no it's not B&M.
[/quote]
Can I please ask why you are so sure it's not a B&M? I don't think it will be either but I am basing that on improbability. Do you actually have any evidence apart from the fact it's unlikely B&M will change their track and train design? It feels like you are basing this on some information we don't know. If so, feel free to share.
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imafatbap
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If it is true then i can't wait it would be brilliant! But i really do doubt it, need it to be confirmed i've only heard it off shawns videos on youtube, never know though, i aren't going to ignore what shawn has said though because it could be possible, expecially with the budget
SAM93

I'm not entirely sure if this should go in this section of the sub-forum but anyway...

I have just found this fan made re-creation of the station building and it is simply fantastic!

[url=" target="_blank][/url]

It would look so eerie and overshadowing if it was to sit in the corner of Ug-land like that.
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davidaiow
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Somebody spoke on the last page about Alton not needing to establish themselves. You are thinking of a UK market. Maybe they want to be with the European Big Boys now. Although if they did, infrastructure would need to be implemented but that is a whole other topic.
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Russell
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Ok before I start let me say that I really dont mind who manufactures the ride as I believe it will be the experience that makes the ride not who manufactured it.

But on the subject of B&M not changing their track design look at it this way. When you become a successful business and one of the best as a business do you stay at the top in your 'comfort zone' and stagnate? No as a business you have to diversify to progress. They have done this before either with new technology (oblivion) or improvements/ alterations to existing technology ala Air. If they want to brake into the family/thrill market then whats better, supply generic family coasters or create new (or improve on existing) technology to make a statement and create interest in your new project? Thus ensuring more orders. And by entering this category of coaster then I would imagen the track is under less stress than there 'bigger coasters' so why waste money on making the expensive box track and not go with a refinement of other types of track ie box track?

Hope that makes sense? :?
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Chris1
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[quote=""Dan""]In summary: just one new roller coaster in 2010, no it's not B&M.[/quote]

It irritates me so much when people write comments like that without disclosing a source or reason, If your not prepared to post evidence that backs up such a statement, don't bother posting things like that at all (Whether your a gold member or not)...

As for 2010, I hope rita gets some repainted cars to go with the green track (if the rumours' true of course)...
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Dan K
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If we're talking about making statements without giving evidence or sources, then yes, I am every bit as guilty as Shawn in that respect - I apologise.
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haydn!
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I'd trust information from Dan over most of the people on here any day. With or without evidence, simply because he's proved extremely reliable in the past.

Also, I'd like to add that I had no doubt those emails were real and never suggested they were fake. I simply don't expect any manufacturer to deny, or admit involvement in any project. Official word will come from Alton Towers - and it is probably certain that there are certain disclosure clauses involved in any contract between the park and the manufacturer. Especially if this to feature world first elements as previously indicated. It's a case of commercial sensitivity.

It is also common practice amongst many businesses, for the 'official word' to conflict the 'actual truth' until the time is right to make an announcement.
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PeteB
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[quote=""Russell""]Ok before I start let me say that I really dont mind who manufactures the ride as I believe it will be the experience that makes the ride not who manufactured it.

But on the subject of B&M not changing their track design look at it this way. When you become a successful business and one of the best as a business do you stay at the top in your 'comfort zone' and stagnate? No as a business you have to diversify to progress. They have done this before either with new technology (oblivion) or improvements/ alterations to existing technology ala Air. If they want to brake into the family/thrill market then whats better, supply generic family coasters or create new (or improve on existing) technology to make a statement and create interest in your new project? Thus ensuring more orders. And by entering this category of coaster then I would imagen the track is under less stress than there 'bigger coasters' so why waste money on making the expensive box track and not go with a refinement of other types of track ie box track?

Hope that makes sense? :?[/quote]

I agree with all of this.

One thing that most people seem to have forgotten is that the price of steel went through the roof recently. Perhaps that could make B&M's typical box section track for too pricey for most customers.

I'm sitting on the fence with the 2010 ride being B&M, but I'm certainly not dismissing it because B&M "wont change their track design" - such assumptions are foolish.
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Ianmoz
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My only point to all of this is that are people forgetting London 2012. The Olympics always increases tourism to whichever a country is hosting it. However due to how easy it is to travel around Europe, surely Merlin would want Alton Towers to be a proper competitor with other resorts in Europe. E.g. Disney Land Paris.
And so adding two rollercoasters would not seem as such big investment if in two years time they are seen as good as Disney Land Paris, or at least a stay, and get a big boost from the olympics. ( Also one of the key areas for the Olympics is Loughborough which is very close to Alton, i believe well under an hour away, as it is meant to be one of the top three areas in the UK by that time, and so should recieve even a greater boost then most.)
Bring on SW7, and hopefully many more future rides to the UK!
LiamSAFC

I watched Shawns "exclusive" and there are just so many unanswered questions at this point that it gets far too confusing delving into the fact there are TWO developments happening in the same year.

Some of the things you have to consider:
  • Budget - All this nonsense about £30 million coasters and 2 projects are unlikely to be true. The likes of X had mass amounts of cash when the economy was good and stable as well as a mass Theme Park chain funding it. For Alton to go and blow their profits from last year would be a bit nonsensical to me.

    Recent Pranks - Of course, you have to ask the question "why would Shawn risk his reputation?" but then you also have to consider authenticity of source and of course STC's antics alongside MBH. There is going to be/already has been alot of bull about this project so we have to think rationally and take things with a pinch of salt. For all we know, Shawns source could merely be a worker whom already knew about Sharkbait Reef from the Alton Towers staff magazine. It's the vadiation of the source which is ultimately crucial.

    Manufacturer - IMO, people are delving into this far too deep. Whist its brilliant to imagine the possibilities, no prototype has been confirmed and all we STILL know at this present minute is a world's first element to the ride. This could be really thinking out the box for Towers. We seen them do it at Thorpe this year, and whist I doubt a form of movie franchise taking the rights of this coaster ( :lol: ) this element could come down to simply anything, from a new track, to a new theme, or a new track element. The fact of the matter is, we can speculate all we want and we won't know until all these clues are wrapped up in a little pink fluffy bow by the end of November.
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