Queue policy for disabled guests

[Kaycee]

(and I've pushed a disabled friend in a wheelchair around Alton, and it's NOT easy).

Chriiist... I totally agree, AT is one hilly place! Especially with the whole issue there was this season with the SkyRide being closed on off-peak times (like weekdays etc) - the SkyRide being, I'm sure, a massive help when you've got a wheelchair to push!


I agree with rita's girl and think people need to accept that it's NOT the same as a fully able person 'getting agitated' in crowds or queues.

[Ash]

This topic seems to have strayed a bit?

Does everyone agree with Altons way of handling disabled guests? I think its spot on, although there have been instances with like 8 carers going on with 1 disabled guest! Part of me thinks that this should be ok, as how rubbish would it be one person going on and everyone else queueing up. Then i also think thats not fair on everyone else, its positive discrimination in a way which in my opinion is also wrong.

Ive also seen/had trouble with people demanding where to sit on a roller coaster, when they have used disabled wristbands which i think is bang out of order. And also not safe!

What are peoples views on there policies, any ways in which it can be improved?

I think in the future there should be a lot more consideration when designing platforms, queueing systems and entrance and exit ramps into disabled guests. Nemesis and Rita are good examples of this!

Air however seems to make things far easier!

[smeg_head]

ADHD is a genuine problem but there are so many children now where the parents just say 'ohh he's got ADHD' to excuse their own lazy attitude to an ubringing.

When I was teaching one kid supposedly had ADHD, even had his own carer that would sit with him on occaissional lessons etc. True to form he was a right little s**t. Anyway I was determined to sort his behaviour out because it was becomming extremely disruptive to the class. The old teacher tended to turn a blind eye to him, letting him sit out of class.

That's no good - it's depriving him of an education and sending a message to other children that you get to skive if you disrupt, thus I was extremely firm with him, Supernanny would be proud, rather than sit out side I impsoed the naughty seat but also set up rewards systems. I also investigated his diet - every day he was being sent to school with pepsi, fanta, chocolate and wotsits. E-numbers galore - nothing natural in sight. Soon got him onto school dinners - veg, protiens - proper food etc. Within one month the results started to speak volumes - he was sitting through classes with no trouble.

Obviously he would occassionally play up but no where near as much as old.

Obviously there are genuine ADHD cases and the ones highlighted previously in this thread seem to be so, but 8 times out of 10 I've found it's just down to parental laziness.

Another problem is the human desire to 'fit in' to be 'normal' sometimes this is the route of tension between those with able bodies and minds and those with special needs... actually I tell a lie, it tends to be a problem to the carers who come in with a huge chip on their shoulder thinking their some sort of special needs defender, they want 100% attention, all the needs of the Special must be met instantly etc etc etc. When you actually go and talk to the disabled person themselves they turn out to be chilled and want as little fuss as possible - and are just as sick of the carer as we are! Where I work we have no end of problems with these sort of carers.

The sooner these sort of carers realise their attitude often causes more bad vibes the better. Disabled people ARE different, it's all very well being told 'they just want to be normal' but they aren't, end of. In order to live day-to-day they HAVE to have special access etc and this takes time to get right. The carers should work with society not against. Get rid of the chip off their shoulder because the disabled people themselves rarely have one - a fine example is the marvellous woman highlighted earlier in the thread saying she doesn't feel she should use the wrist bands etc.

[kingcriplet]

[quote=""Titler""] I think its spot on, although there have been instances with like 8 carers going on with 1 disabled guest![/quote]

Thats the part that gets most people I think. At peak times I would like to see the Six Flags/Thorpe Park system used to make queue times more equal for everyone.

[Sebastian]

I really don't agree with the Chessington policy of that (lets take Vampire for instance) disabled riders simply go into disabled queue and walk straight on, I believe it is seriously flawed. The main problem is the law, as you cannot ask the disabled person what their problem is, and this is the main problem, for example people may use something like ADD as a disabled excuse, and get free fastpasses, which is exploiting the system, whereas someone who is in a wheelchair with a genuine problem should be let onto the ride this way.

[bushboy2]

Personally I dont have a major problem with it as you dont tend to get masses of dissabled guests at a park so queue hold ups are very minimal but I still think it is wrong that a dissabled guest can just skip the queue.

All you hear is that dissabled people want to be treated equally and want as many rights as non disabled people.. so why should they just be allowed straight onto rides where other have to wait hours? Do they not have the ability to queue? Just becuase you are in a wheel chair doesnt mean you cannot stand in the line like the rest of us.

I think a ticketing system should be used where they goto the exit where they are given a ticket which tells them to return at xx:xx time (based on the length of the queue) at which time they can walk on without queueing.

Either that or have a system like the parent share thing where one member of the party queues whilst everyone else waits. They once the person gets through the queue line, the disabled guest can coem on via the exit.

[DanW]

At peak times I would like to see the Six Flags/Thorpe Park system used to make queue times more equal for everyone.

The only problem with this is that when I use it the staff don't seem to know how long the queues are, i've queued plenty of times for them and have a good idea of how long they are when i see them, but the staff over estimate quite a lot of the time which is very irritating

[Ash]

[quote=""DanW""]

At peak times I would like to see the Six Flags/Thorpe Park system used to make queue times more equal for everyone.

The only problem with this is that when I use it the staff don't seem to know how long the queues are, i've queued plenty of times for them and have a good idea of how long they are when i see them, but the staff over estimate quite a lot of the time which is very irritating[/quote]

Really, im sorry but i dont think they do. I bet I could predict the length of any queue at Alton Towers better than you.

The current system works ok, as long as there are ordered places for wheel chairs etc to wait, and and constant flow off all the queues. Also that the disabled regulations are fully understood by guest and management.

[DanW]

I meant at Thorpe

All i'm saying is that when you queue for Nemesis Inferno and its at the bottom of the stairs with two trains it is in no way 1 hour!

And when the end of the queue for Stealth is at the end of the queue without any extensions open it isn't 45 minutes either (in fact its only about 25 for the front at most)

[Ash]

Well thats thorpes staff, no surprises there.

[John]

Staff sometimes outright lie. On the scarefest meet someone at the entrance to spinball told us the Q was an hour and recommended coming back later. They weren't even using the extended Q line, and the wait was actually about 20 minutes. She was just trying to clear the Q a bit.

[Sebastian]

Inferno - bottom of steps with Fastrack being let through the Fastrack entrance (not ride exit) is around about 15 minutes.

[rita's girl]

ok seems to gone off track again... lmao

In reply to JOFFY http://www.towerstimesforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=18990 the ADD/ADHD can only be used for disabled q's is when they have a letter from the DWP or Mental Health. You are also only allowed 1 disabled person and only one helper at any one time. The only exception is if its not busy or you have a children in the group then they may allow 2 helpers.

In the thread by JOFFY about the Panarama tv show if any of you saw it, the girl who was filmed by camera on the mobile phone that is exactley what my son is like.

ALso in reply to some of the comments about the q's not being fair....

Take Nemmy for instance, there is only 1 disabled and 1 helper allowed in the ride at any one time. So the next disabled rider needs wait until the have left the ride before they can enter it. Also you are only allowed to do the rides one time then you have to move onto another ride before being able to go back to the first one.

[Crofty]

[quote=""rita's girl""]
Also you are only allowed to do the rides one time then you have to move onto another ride before being able to go back to the first one.[/quote]

I think thats the problem most people have with the Disabled queues. at other themeparks i've seen people staying on for second and third goes and on low throughput rides this is very frustrating for the people left in the main queue.
Thankfully i've not noticed it at Towers.

[JohnoUK]

Howdy, my first post (How exciting!) and HUGE AT fan (Going up for park opening on 15th from Kent... )... ok, I digressed, here we go.

Due to the fact that we travel from the far South East in Kent all the way up to AT frequently, we tend to go on mass, by this, I mean it could be anything from 6 to 16 people going at any one time, however, one of the adults in the group has a very bad coxix (Bone near the tail bone) and can sometime leave them in great discomfort, especially when walking for long periods of times (wonder where this might occur? ). The pain is so bad and due to the accident happening at work, they issued them with a disabilty note as pending investigation was occuring against their employer.

Anyhoo, we do not exploit the system by any means, we respect that there are waiting times and that we need to respect the rules, we will go through the priority entrance, then we wait, not for a set amount of time, but for the rest of the group to ride, a classic example is Oblivion...

... [rant]With all due respect, trying to get a wheelchair BACK through the arcade, through the shop, along the exit runway and then to the gate is a MAJOR challange and to top it all off, you have a group of 32 people making their way BACK the opposite way to you (we know that there is a gate to bypass the shop, but this is locked and is more hassel than its worth trying to get it opened). We have waited for well over half hour sometimes and we don't complain as we don't have the hassel of moving a wheelchair through the main que line, there have been instances where the rest of the group have rode before we have after a substantial que time!![/rant]

So to sum up, AT is fantastic at disabilty and diversity, although the RMT could do with allowing the choice of seat instead of always the front, the look on those kids faces is heartbreaking when they were all geared up to ride front... that is one thing I would change...

Anyhoo, gotta go and creat some sigs and update profile info!! Hehe!!

ROLL ON MARCH 15TH!!

[Skumfidus]

I'm quite surprised at some peoples reactions in this topic. No, disabled people shouldn't get 'special treatment' for being disabled. The only reason they use the exit is because it can be hard for them to wait in a queue, in a wheelchair or on their feet for long periods of time. They don't get to queue-jump as a way of Alton Towers saying 'We're sorry you're disabled'...that's discrimination. People in wheelchairs shouldn't get 'treats' because they are simply in a wheelchair.

There are a number of reasons why people can't queue, they don't necesserily have to be in a wheelchair, people may be claustrophobic, highly stressed in crowds..I personally think that it's unfair to let them Q-jump, along with up to 3 carers, especially people with no visable disability, why do they need 3 people to 'help' them?

[rita's girl]

There are a number of reasons why people can't queue, they don't necesserily have to be in a wheelchair, people may be claustrophobic, highly stressed in crowds..I personally think that it's unfair to let them Q-jump, along with up to 3 carers, especially people with no visable disability, why do they need 3 people to 'help' them?

Thats the whole point of the topic. Anywhoo as it says you are only allowed one disabled person and one carer (unless the park is dead then discresion of the ride op)

Under the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) 2005 there has to be sufficient access for diasbled people to partake in activities. However it can be non walking or walking disability, there fore there has to be a certain element of special access to the rides. Disabled people do still q not as long as the normal q lines but they still do and anyway whats 2 seats out of 2 nemmy trains gonna make to the q line NONE!

[Skumfidus]

[quote=""rita's girl""]

There are a number of reasons why people can't queue, they don't necesserily have to be in a wheelchair, people may be claustrophobic, highly stressed in crowds..I personally think that it's unfair to let them Q-jump, along with up to 3 carers, especially people with no visable disability, why do they need 3 people to 'help' them?

Thats the whole point of the topic. Anywhoo as it says you are only allowed one disabled person and one carer (unless the park is dead then discresion of the ride op)

Under the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) 2005 there has to be sufficient access for diasbled people to partake in activities. However it can be non walking or walking disability, there fore there has to be a certain element of special access to the rides. Disabled people do still q not as long as the normal q lines but they still do and anyway whats 2 seats out of 2 nemmy trains gonna make to the q line NONE![/quote]

That's not the point though is it, everyone knows, employees especially, that most of the time one special access guest has at least 2 other carers, sometimes even up to 5 or 6. I'm not saying "Don't let disabled people on, or make them queue in the normal line" that's a) evil and b) going against the act you randomly quoted there for no reason (my previous post hints at nothing that doesnt conform with that)

The point is that these people have a disability, but that's no reason to allow them to queue jump, which is what this is, simple as. Yes we should try as hard as possible to cater for these people, but the comment "whats 2 seats out of 2 nemmy trains gonna make to the q line NONE!" is ridiculous. If just one disabled guest, on their own, uses a seat, that whole row is unavailable to the main queueline, so is either filled up with single riders or is ran 3 seats empty. The amount of impact it has on the queueline is minimal, but there is always an impact. one in about every 10 trains is ran with the back row saved for disabled guests, and with an average of 40 trains per hour, that's 4 trains an hour with a row not filled from the queueline, making 16 spaces taken up. 16 out of 1200 isn't many, but yes, it is an impact.

Disabled guests don't have to 'queue' as in wait their turn, their only wait is for the operational side of things (getting the seats prepared, moving people around). Why on earth shouldn't they wait their turn? They have a disability, they need help to get onto the ride comfortably and safely, but there is no disability that comes to my mind that prevents people from waiting a certain amount of time to do something they want to do.

There are still fast-track machines on park, these can be easily modified so that a disabled guest can scan their special access wristband, and can enter the ride at the rides exit at a specifed time (say, current queue time minus 5 minutes to allow for the back to be held etc). That way, everyone is happy, the ride hosts don't get a sudden influx of disabled guests to handle all at one time, able-bodied persons are happy in the knowledge that the only thing this disabled person has missed is a stand-up wait in a physical queue, and the rider themselves gets to go on the ride.

This system would be totally fair, it would conform to the previously mentioned act AND Alton Towers own queue jumping policy. The system at present is discriminative....against able-bodied people....

[rita's girl]

from reading that i presume you have no tolerance to disability at all.

I did not just randomly quote the DDA but thats what it basically says about all access, trust me its what I study. Anyway we have been to the park with 3 disabled people and 6 carers and have only been allowed 1 of each on at any time when it has been fairly busy.

If just one disabled guest, on their own, uses a seat, that whole row is unavailable to the main queueline, so is either filled up with single riders or is ran 3 seats empty.

What a load of rubbish. On rides a disabled person is NOT allowed to go on a ride without a carer as staff are not allowed to physically lift or manhandle people on an evac due to health and safety. Therefore the carer is there to lift and push the disabled person etc. AND when there are 2 seats left on nemmy they are filled up woth two riders or single riders from the normal line.

The point is that these people have a disability, but that's no reason to allow them to queue jump, which is what this is, simple as. Yes we should try as hard as possible to cater for these people,

For this to happen then the queue lines need to be straight and flat to prevent a wheelchair from getting stuck going round bends or being stuck on a slope.

[Skumfidus]

I think you seem to have the wrong end of the stick here rita's girl.

For one, you seem to be taking the stance of all disabled people being unable to move on their own, which is the actual critera for having to have a carer on ride with the guest, as you have stated, disability is a very wide umbrella

--

The point is that these people have a disability, but that's no reason to allow them to queue jump, which is what this is, simple as. Yes we should try as hard as possible to cater for these people,

For this to happen then the queue lines need to be straight and flat to prevent a wheelchair from getting stuck going round bends or being stuck on a slope.

--

And that whole quote and answer makes no sense at all, at no point have i ever stated disabled guests should be made to physically queue in a queueline, in fact, I completely discouraged that idea here ->

I'm not saying "Don't let disabled people on, or make them queue in the normal line" that's a) evil and b) going against the act you randomly quoted there for no reason

It seems that you feel I have no tolerance towards disabled people, which I don't quite see, as the only thing I am saying is give them equal rights, not more! Make them queue like every other tom, d-i-c-k and harry, but don't make them physically queue, give them an e-ticket...do you not see that at all?