Queue policy for disabled guests

[Magical Ryan]

Ok, So he uses it so what? Does not really effect any of us in any way so just let it go.

[AstroDan]

Regardless of whether Mr. Mowbray is telling the whole truth, there is no need for such long winded accusations!

Please get back to the topic in hand in a more productive and sensible manner, rather than just having a go at people.

Thanks.

[Chris W]

I think the Disneyland Paris system works pretty well.
If a disabled guest cannot queue they are given a token and the others in the group are also given a token. The disabled person will then wait at the exit until the person with the token has queued. Once they get to the station they give their token in and they board the ride with the disabled person.

This means other guests won't get as annoyed at people "skipping the line" but the disabled person also gets to ride.

It works better at Disney though due to many of their queues being wheelchair accessible and also that the length of wait isn't as huge.

[PETER MOWBRAY]

[quote=""Colossus""][quote=""PETER MOWBRAY""]My wife is classed as Disabled but to look at her she looks very healthy and well.
She refuses to use her Disability to gain access to rides as she doesn't want to be treated differently from able bodied riders and thats her choice and decision.[/quote]



Sorry to get personal here, but this is absolute rubbish Peter and you know it. I and I bet many others know your face and have seen you at Alton Towers, and your wife and your whole family use disabled access to get on rides. I myself have seen you use the disabled entrance on Duel when there was no queue !! Also I have seen you and your wife walking between the rides and then coming to Nemesis and Rita and for your wife to sit in her wheel chair and get on the ride via the exit. I have been waiting in the station on Rita, after queuing for 1 hour and seen you and your family get on via the ride exit.

It is because of blatant lies like this, that there is so much discrimination in this country. People get cheesed off by others "using" or "playing" the system. Fine if your wife is registered disabled Peter, but please dont tell lies that you, your wife and your family never use the disabled system and policy. You do use the disabled policy, so dont try and make out that you dont.

No doubt this post will be removed.... but if it does, then so should Peter Mowbrays for talking complete rubbish !!! Sorry for being angry and agressive, its just that I cannot tolerate blatant lies. [/quote]

Well where do I start..?
Firstly isnt somebody allowed to change their minds and use whatever resource is available to them?

I think that your personal attack on me and my family is uncalled for as you dont even know us but do I care not in the slightest.
I was honest enough to reply to a posting of yours a few months ago when you witnessed my Wife walking (as she can) in between rides.
We dont always hire a wheelchair it depends on how she is feeling because of the terrain it can be a problem for her is that a reasonable explanation for you..?

I didn't realise that you had a medical qualification or the ability to diagnose a persons disability from observation..
You should put yourself forward for the Noble peace prize for medicine..

We are issued with blue bands at the start of the day as per Alton Towers protocol.
We will proberly only ride the big rides once in a day and Alton Towers dont like splitting families up or do you think that they should..?

I would also like to say that Alton Towers have this system and if you have a problem with it I advise you to take it up with them.
As I said in an earlier thread we have nothing to hide or fear from anybody..

[sam07]

It's a bit of a con that the whole family can go on if one person is disabled.
And I don't like how it works on RMT. That's stupid that they let the disabled people on at the front.

[PETER MOWBRAY]

[quote=""sam07""]It's a bit of a con that the whole family can go on if one person is disabled.
And I don't like how it works on RMT. That's stupid that they let the disabled people on at the front.[/quote]


I agree disabled people and their carers shouldnt get to sit at the front of any ride I completely agree with you on this..

[Colossus]

As per Towerstimes forum guidelines, I will carry this on with Mr Mowbray via PM's.

I will however just re-iterate what I said, as I want to make this perfectly clear, as Mr Mowbrays comments may have overshadowed what I have stated.

I do not have a problem with the disabled people. I do however have a problem with people lying.

Anyway, back onto the topic, yes I agree that Disney Paris and Thorpe Parks systems are far better than Altons policy. The policy at AT, is open to abuse by people and probably some of of you have witnessed this on occasions.

It is a question of how far you go with policies isnt it? Some would argue that allowing groups of people into the single rider queue is wrong.

[TB2]

[quote=""sam07""]It's a bit of a con that the whole family can go on if one person is disabled.
And I don't like how it works on RMT. That's stupid that they let the disabled people on at the front.[/quote]

I don't think it would be very good if the disabled person was forced to sit by themselves with no family. On the other hand it wouldn't be fair if one disabled person came with 8 helpers, all expecting to ride.

I've always found that RMT front seat thing a bit dodgy. At Chessington we sit the disabled groups in the middle of the train as in the case of evacuation, we know where they are sitting and it will always be an even distance away from the loading platforms (not say at the front where they may be the furthest away from the station). What is Alton's reasons for having them at the front?

[rita's girl]

When we go to AT we go usually in two different groups. 1) 3 disabled and 3 carers or 2) 2 disabled and 2 carers. Obviously there are rides that my son cannot go on due to height restrictions, there are rides my mom cannot go on due to her disability and rides I wont go on because of my size (air and spinball)

I go on everything my son wants to go on but the others wait until we come off the ride so they can go on after hense we all get on certain rides but not at the same time.

Sometimes I have to go on twice as im a carer but we wait the 15 mins that AT ask for out of respect for other users and sefety reasons. I hate going to RMT because if we go to the gate together they will let us all on together even if there is 6 of us. I disagree with being at the front of the ride, as on all of the others the back is the easiest to evac if necessary. I also have a problem that there should be more than 1 disabled person on RMT at any one time, however we have been told we can go on as a six (which we done once) and then they let another family with a disabled person on at the same time. Which meant we basically took half of the train up, that is unfair and no wonder people moan I dont blame you.

Another one is the rapids, they will let you all in one boat which is ok on a not so busy day, and its easier for me to be in the same boat as the disabled members of my family as im the strongest if evac is needed to assist them. I found out last year that if you have the bands, due to the length and the hills for the disabled enterance that you can go round twice without getting out the boat......... get ready for the moans on that one....... but we do not take advantage.

I think AT need to sort their policys out and have a firm standing from every ride and not do it at the ride ops dscretion then everyone knows where it stands. As a former employee I went to the management and told them this......

[PETER MOWBRAY]

[quote=""Colossus""]As per Towerstimes forum guidelines, I will carry this on with Mr Mowbray via PM's.

I will however just re-iterate what I said, as I want to make this perfectly clear, as Mr Mowbrays comments may have overshadowed what I have stated.

I do not have a problem with the disabled people. I do however have a problem with people lying.

Anyway, back onto the topic, yes I agree that Disney Paris and Thorpe Parks systems are far better than Altons policy. The policy at AT, is open to abuse by people and probably some of of you have witnessed this on occasions.

It is a question of how far you go with policies isnt it? Some would argue that allowing groups of people into the single rider queue is wrong.[/quote]

I have actually sent you a thanks and a pm.

I would just like to say that I dont think that its very fair of this member to publicly accuse somebody of being a liar and I believe that this is a personel grudge that you have against me and really nothing to do with the above named topic.

I would also like to publicly thank you for informing me a few months ago that Disabled people could park in the express car park at Alton Towers for free..

Its really nice when a park takes care of its guests so well I only wish and hope that the Blackpool Pleasure Beach adopt a similar system in the future..

[Craig]

Again guys as has already been said, if you wish to make personal comments rather than contribute to the discussion point in general then please take it to PM.

This type of topic is always going to be a hotbed of debate, but please remember we have guidelines which need to be adhered to. Any further posts of a personal nature will be removed and if necessary, action taken against the offending member(s).

[Ash84]

I see nothing wrong with the present set up at PBB for those with disablities.

Ash

[Voni86]

I've read through this thread and I've found it really interesting, having experienced AT as both a 'disabled' person and a 'carer'.

I think the system at AT is pretty decent, when you get to the ride exit you usually have to wait a few ride cycles, which is more than fair in my opinion. I do worry when we go to AT, because my friend who's disabled has a condition called neuropathy, which makes it very painful to be standing around for long periods of time. The thing is, it doesn't manifest itself outwardly, so I worry that people think we're taking the mick.

People must remember that 99% of the time we have to present a doctor's letter to prove he has the condition (and it ALWAYS gets checked by a manager because they never know what neuropathy is!). If everyone does this we won't have anyone feigning disabilty just to skip queues.

My only problem with this is that they don't ALWAYS check it. I went to the park last summer after sustaining an injury that meant I couldn't walk. I tried to do the park on crutches but it was a nightmare, so we went back to customer services and they let me rent a wheelchair and gave my group the wristbands, without checking anything. Granted, I was on crutches and it was pretty obvious I couldn't walk, but if they'd let me get away with it, what's to say they wouldn't let a perfectly healthy person get away with it? Especially in light of the 'disability for at least a year' rule that was noted a few pages back.

As a side note, I must point out that GETTING to the ride exits in a wheelchair is an utter nightmare at some rides. The River Rapids was the worst, it was hardly wide enough for the wheelchair and when you're being beseiged by hundreds of people getting off the ride... not fun!

[Gemzie121]

I'm a bit embarassed about some of the things said here, but found it very interesting, I'm going to Alton Towers the week after next and now I'm going to worry that people think I'm taking the michael when I'm using the disabled queues because my disability isn't obvious, infact Its hidden. I have a carer and a disabled friend also going with me with her 2 carers (she needs a person on either side when she gets on or off a ride), she has a more obvious disability as she is in a wheelchair permenantly whereas i am not. But we both are registered disabled and would struggle to use the normal queue lines.

Please don't tar us all with the same brush! I have spina bifida but thanks to major surgery at 6 years old I kept an ability to walk & suffer no other effects from it other than an obvious back deformity (but isnt noticeable with the type of clothes I wear, I try to hide it best I can) however, I've got nerve damage to my feet as a result & have arthritis in my left ankle which needs fusing or replacing. I walk without a problem but I cannot walk long distances or stand for any period of time so I use a mobility scooter at uni/home and crutch when its very bad. However this time I may not be able to take my scooter if it wont fit in the car and may have to walk & rely on the skyride/cable cars as i hate being in a wheelchair and being dependant on friends, thats my choice and I will most likely suffer for it. Last time I took my scooter but left it by the side and got off & walked onto the rides. Those queueing who hadnt seen me get off the scooter could probably well have thought I was taking the michael because I walked on and looked like I had no problems. However if you pull my jeans up you'll find a very obvious ankle problem complete with ankle support, but what im getting at is that no-one can see this when my jeans are covering it. I also have balance problems because I cannot feel my feet as well so where rides are difficult to get on (like spinball whizzer/the rapids) i need someone to just rely on for support as needed so i dont fall. So please dont think everyone who appears normal is (whatever you define normal as!), there can be a lot of hidden injuries/disabilities and why should we have to make them obvious. Please keep an open mind about this. I cannot stand to queue because of the weight on that joint, and the pain, i also find my legs start to go and im liable for my legs to just collapse under me or i fall over. i also get pressure ulcers from nerve damage which are very unpleasent and I was in a cast for a year once from them. However to a bystander i probably look completely able bodied. I know i get funny looks on my scooter, people thinking why should an 18 year old need one of those?. But yeah, its not nice for us having to worry what others think when we're only out to have fun!
If i had the chance to have my disability removed & be able to walk like everyone else & be in no pain then I'd be grateful to use the normal queue lines! I can find it humiliating using the disabled queues as everyone looks at you & you worry they are saying things about you because you effectively queue jumped. I feel guilty but Id feel even more so If I used the normal queue, did my foot in worse when it could have been prevented & then had to have my mum go out of her way to look after me for months after & take me to a lot more hospital appointments!

Re, RMT, why should we not be able to get a go at the front? on everything else we have to put up with being at the back, other than oblivion! I know that sounds mean, but we'll never get the chance to go on the front of Nemmi etc so its lovely to get to RMT and get on the front and get a good view etc, theres not always going to be a disabled guest there anyway & more often than not a non-disabled guest will be able to get on the front.

As said above, people should remember that we do have to produce proof of disability so its unliklely we're trying to fool the system! a blue badge for example has your name, photo etc on. I think all in all the system works well, and i cant see how a few disabled people getting on affects the queue much? Especially not on a high capacity ride like Oblivion, which is going every couple of minutes... a few more minutes is nothing to wait. Id rather be doing the waiting than putting up with the stares etc when using disabled queues, but i dont have a choice in that!

Sorry about the rant, just need people to realise that not everyone is out to abuse a system which makes our day that little bit easier.

[Justtracy]

Gemzie121, you have just said exactly what I was thinking. My daughter has exactly the same as yourself in fact it was just like reading her medical file. She also finds the 'disabled access stares' very intimidating. If all the people who stare, tut and say out loud" what reason do you have to have a disabled pass" could spend a day in her life they too would be glad of a little help.
You should never feel humiliated because or your condition, be proud of what you have achieved in your life.
Enjoy your day with your friends and remember, the people you meet that day you may never see again in your life, let them think what they like, they are the ignorant ones

[Gemzie121]

Thankyou JustTracey
I'm lucky my friend who is also going does not care what people think of her, she's pretty good at standing up for herself, and will stare back at people who are rude towards her! I must admit though, I'd be really worried if I was the only disabled person in the disabled queue line, just because of the fact my condition is not obvious. Because my friend is in a wheelchair people tend to be more understanding/accepting of us using that queue as its more obvious that we need to be in the disabled queue. Still we shouldnt have to prove ourselves to anyone in an ideal world!

[Nikkisun]

I don't have a problem with disabled people using the exits - if theme parks don't make their queue lines wheelchair friendly then what else are people supposed to do!

What I do have a problem with is what we encountered at AT last Thursday. My 8 year old son was in the SRQ for Spinball (I was just at the exit waiting for him to get off) when all of a sudden a large group of people came up the exit, one of them had a disabled wristband on and the ride operator asked how many non-disabled people were in the party, the answer given was 9! All of them were let on through the exit in one large group as 2 groups of 3 and one of 4 so all of a sudden 3 cars had been taken up, then to make matters worse the disabled person decided not to ride so all the carers just got on the ride not having had to queue at all!

[Gemzie121]

Nikkisun, thats not on! you're only really supposed to have one carer, a maximum of 2! I fail to see how this was allowed, and would have complained! I have a severely disabled friend but she can manage with 2 carers, I cant see how 9 are needed! Its people like that who give us a bad name! Im going the week after next in a group of 5 for my birthday, 2 of us being disabled, im prepared that we will have to split up into 2groups and wait for a short period after the 1st group has been on as its only fair, how people can get away with going on as a group of 9 in one go is ridiculous! I accept i wont be able to go on with my disabled friend because im disabled too, and that it'll always just be me and one of my friends as a carer and that we wont all get to go on anything together, birthday outing or not. Its the rules, and so annoying when others twist round them, one rule for one person and another for someone else, they need to be more consistent! then people would have no reason to complain! i bet we wont be allowed to do the same (not that we'd even try it!) but still!

I can see why people get so wound up now, that is what id define as taking the michael. Did you complain Nikkisun? i would have!

EDIT: And how on earth did they think putting the other carers in other cars would have made any difference in an evacuation anyway?! thats just stupid! My friend got on spinball once & then decided she was getting off, my brother who was her carer was made to get off too, i just think its crazy how they change the rules all the time! argh!

[Nikkisun]

We mentioned it to the ride host and he said that he didn't think it would be a problem as the park was so quiet!

I could understand that if the ride had been a walk-on but it was over an hour queue (about 25 mins in SRQ). To be honest we couldn't be bothered to take it any further and just got on with enjoying our day!

[Gemzie121]

Thats just mad, they should have been asked to join the normal queue if the disabled person wasnt riding (who should normally only have one carer on anyway). I myself have seen inconsistencies though, for example spinball and oblvion were the only rides who checked our wristbands, nemmi etc didnt. They seem to chop and change the rules on each ride which just makes it confusing and probably what irritates guests in the standard queues too!