New for 2008: Mutiny Bay

General discussion regarding the UK's No.1 Theme Park. Talk about anything and everything Alton Towers here.
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Sebastian
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The word you are looking for is 'sea sickness', Scurvy is a rotting of the gums, commonly fixed by eating limes, hence why they are called 'limies'

From Wiki:
Scurvy (N.Lat. scorbutus) is a deficiency disease that results from insufficient intake of vitamin C, which is required for correct collagen synthesis in humans. The scientific name of vitamin C, ascorbic acid, is derived from the Latin name of scurvy, scorbutus. Scurvy leads to the formation of liver spots on the skin, spongy gums, and bleeding from all mucous membranes. The spots are most abundant on the thighs and legs, and a person with the ailment looks pale, feels depressed, and is partially immobilized. In advanced scurvy there are open, suppurating wounds and loss of teeth.
Moley

Scurvy could be better themed though :lol:
LiamSAFC

Of course, Sea Sickness could also go into it...obviously better themed. These are merely suggestions, maybe it could be incorporated with the Project, an Educational twist!

Heave Ho could definitely include this feature! That could work really well. Also on another note, anyone got any ideas or suggestions/opinions on Area Music? I'd like to hear a type of Dark Sinister Music, with added effects like Anchors and Chains in the Background, creating that real sense of Adventure! :D
Moley

Wouldnt mind a hustle and bustle style background to try and re-create a port or bay atmosphere considering thats the area's name.

As long as theres no cheesy "Yarrrrr" pirate stereotypes used I'll be happy
Gax
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[quote=""Sebastian""]Not really, it could easily not be included. People are just worrying too much about small things! :shock:
[/quote]

It's not exactly a "small" thing, even with Battle Galleons the Flume will still be the 'biggest' ride in the area. I think it would be really weird for a bathtime themed ride to be stuck in a pirate land, it would fit in less than rita! And most people get confused by the theme of that, nevermind the Flume in Mutiny Bay. Just my opinion.


[quote=""Moley 89""]Wouldnt mind a hustle and bustle style background to try and re-create a port or bay atmosphere considering thats the area's name.

As long as theres no cheesy "Yarrrrr" pirate stereotypes used I'll be happy[/quote]

the music in this area could really add to it imo. There's so much potential. If Alton settle for something really mediocre then I'll be disappointed, they should come up with something brilliant!
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Dr Pop Rocket
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So long as the Flume is clearly separated from Mutiny Bay I cannot see it being much of a problem, it should not be visible in my opinion from Mutiny Bay nor should it be heard (i.e. the music). I'm sure some themed walls or some facade will do the trick. The Flume should not be listed as being part of Mutiny Bay either, would just look silly in the ride line up and would purely be done for the sake of it in my opinion to save having to create a small segment just for the Flume.

As for the released concept art and logo, I know you shouldn't judge on concept art, your setting yourself up for a let down, but it does make the area seem promising, mainly because it appears to have a dark tone to it and not this cheesy feel, but of course the final product could end up completely different to the concept art. Either way I like that logo!

:)
Kaycee

[quote=""Dr Pop Rocket""]So long as the Flume is clearly separated from Mutiny Bay I cannot see it being much of a problem, it should not be visible in my opinion from Mutiny Bay nor should it be heard (i.e. the music). I'm sure some themed walls or some facade will do the trick. The Flume should not be listed as being part of Mutiny Bay either, would just look silly in the ride line up and would purely be done for the sake of it in my opinion to save having to create a small segment just for the Flume.
[/quote]

Totally agree with this tbh, was going to post it earlier, but didn't think it was worth the aggro. :P The Flume is set back and not visible from most of Mutiny Bay, with the Tavern almost acting as a barrier between the area and The Flume itself - I always struggled seeing The Flume as part of Merrie England anyway.

It would be worth 'officially' taking it out of that area and just either creating its own area, or not giving it an area at all. It's a shame about yet another clear clash of themes... so I think to remove The Flume from Mutiny Bay's line-up is worth doing, as its location would actually allow it quite convincingly.
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Liam
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But the Flume has always been part of Aqualand / Merrie England. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't. You can't all of a sudden give a ride it's own area sandwiched between two totally different themes. Well you can, but it's not professional.

It may not be visable from all areas, but just think about it from an experience point of view. You come off a ride on the Flume with all its ducks, power showers and shampoo-ness and are suddenly on the door step of sinister Pirate Central.

The Tavern is presumably going to be part of Mutiny Bay?
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Wes
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[quote=""Liam""]ou come off a ride on the Flume with all its ducks, power showers and shampoo-ness and are suddenly on the door step of sinister Pirate Central. [/quote]

Wow. When you put it like that it sounds rather fun :D
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Dr Pop Rocket
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[quote=""Liam""]But the Flume has always been part of Aqualand / Merrie England. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't. You can't all of a sudden give a ride it's own area sandwiched between two totally different themes. Well you can, but it's not professional.

It may not be visable from all areas, but just think about it from an experience point of view. You come off a ride on the Flume with all its ducks, power showers and shampoo-ness and are suddenly on the door step of sinister Pirate Central. [/quote]

I don't think people are saying the Flume is not or was never part of Merrie England, but the fact is, even if it does mean sandwiching it off it can be hidden and somewhat taken out of the Mutiny Bay equation. I'm sure most people would love to see a re-theme, but we know full well Alton won't re-theme the Flume so just blocking it off into it's own little area will be sufficient, sure you will be going from one to the other rather drastically but so long as guests get a clear indication of when they are entering and leaving each area then it shouldn't be too bad and will hardly be a clash on the scale of Air or Rita.

[quote=""Liam""]The Tavern is presumably going to be part of Mutiny Bay?[/quote]

I assume so, it's right in the middle of it, if it wasn't then that's a clash I'd worry about...:P
Big Dave

How about moving the flume exit and making it a part of katanga canyon? Easily done has it nearest neighbour is the rapids. All you need to do then is make the flume more African and then somehow it becomes like those commercials where they are in the bath and with 1 squirt they are transported to some jungle with wild flowers and exotic birds lol. Might work, or maybe not.
Kaycee

Nice idea Dave, not sure how they could do it though. Although you are only moving the problem (poor Flume :lol: a 'problem') elsewhere - bathtubs fit just as well into an African village as they do in pirate land hehehe. If they're not going to retheme for Mutiny Bay, I doubt they'd do it for Katanga Canyon AND move the exit.

And Liam, two areas of differing themes in close proximity is very commonplace in theme parks - look at Thorpe, for example - one second you're in a 'Lost City' (whatever that is) and the next you're apparently in Canada!

Alton Towers is lucky in that they do have pathways in between each area so each new theme is completely separate etc etc... but the Flume was only rethemed four years ago, it's obvious it's not going to be rethemed for this coming season - so they could either leave it as part of Mutiny's Bay line-up and it be weird when you look at each area's ride line-up, or you could just segregate it from Mutiny Bay and just have it by itself - maybe people will get confused stepping from bathtubs to pirate land, but I doubt it, stuff like that at theme parks is not unusual.

I doubt the 'Flume' side of the Tavern and that facade will change much, so I don't even think it's quite a case of literally stepping from bathtubs to pirate land... you will have to go through into the Courtyard or round the Tavern building before you get 'inundated' (hopefully) with pirates.
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[quote=""Liam""]You can't all of a sudden give a ride it's own area sandwiched between two totally different themes. Well you can, but it's not professional.
[/quote]

Liam, Liam Liam, I think you're missing the entire ethos of the area, the very point at the centre of the whole concept. All you have to do is suspend your belief while walking along that rather long path which runs directly in between Mutiny Bay and The Flume: Unplugged by Imperial Leather. You know the path... the one where if you look one way you can see a bathtime themed water ride and if you look the other you can see a Medieval... I mean Pirate... theme and if you're very lucky you can even get a slight vibe of Mexico as well.

Kudos to the park really for giving it's guest the choice when walking along that path, it truly makes the area interactive as the guest gets to choose which theme they want to enjoy... feeling Piratey? No problem! Love... ummm... baths? We can do that too!!

I bet your one of these people who don't even put their fingers in their ears when walking along the Haunted Hollow so you can't hear the quacking from the Flume. :wink:
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Liam
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[quote=""Squiggles""][quote=""Liam""]You can't all of a sudden give a ride it's own area sandwiched between two totally different themes. Well you can, but it's not professional.
[/quote]

Liam, Liam Liam, I think you're missing the entire ethos of the area, the very point at the centre of the whole concept. All you have to do is suspend your belief while walking along that rather long path which runs directly in between Mutiny Bay and The Flume: Unplugged by Imperial Leather. You know the path... the one where if you look one way you can see a bathtime themed water ride and if you look the other you can see a Medieval... I mean Pirate... theme and if you're very lucky you can even get a slight vibe of Mexico as well.

Kudos to the park really for giving it's guest the choice when walking along that path, it truly makes the area interactive as the guest gets to choose which theme they want to enjoy... feeling Piratey? No problem! Love... ummm... baths? We can do that too!!

I bet your one of these people who don't even put their fingers in their ears when walking along the Haunted Hollow so you can't hear the quacking from the Flume. :wink:[/quote]
:P :D

[quote=""Kaycee""]And Liam, two areas of differing themes in close proximity is very commonplace in theme parks - look at Thorpe, for example - one second you're in a 'Lost City' (whatever that is) and the next you're apparently in Canada! [/quote]
Yes, and that's what I hate most about Thorpe! It's awful. The only theme that is properly rounded off and tied down and not vague is Canada Creek.

Why on earth would you want such clashes to happen at the Towers, when as you say, they are lucky to have the space to have paths inbetween areas, which works perfectly.

[quote=""Kaycee""]I doubt the 'Flume' side of the Tavern and that facade will change much, so I don't even think it's quite a case of literally stepping from bathtubs to pirate land... you will have to go through into the Courtyard or round the Tavern building before you get 'inundated' (hopefully) with pirates.[/quote]
Ok, maybe not one step, maybe 10, or 20? An insignificant amount anyway.

Squiggles describes it perfectly.
[quote=""Squiggles""]You know the path... the one where if you look one way you can see a bathtime themed water ride and if you look the other you can see a Medieval... I mean Pirate... theme and if you're very lucky you can even get a slight vibe of Mexico as well. [/quote]
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Kaycee

[quote=""Liam""]Why on earth would you want such clashes to happen at the Towers, when as you say, they are lucky to have the space to have paths inbetween areas, which works perfectly.

[/quote]

I don't 'want' such clashes to happen, but like I say, it is obvious The Flume is not being re-themed for 2008... soooo, I could sit here at my laptop and bitch about that fact, or I could think about what they could do to make it less of a hash-up... OK so it's not going to a) move The Flume or b) re-theme it so the entire theme of that general area is coherent, which is obviously what we all want - but it does look silly having The Flume included in the ride line-up for Mutiny Bay.

Whether it's convincing or not, AT should do all they can to separate the two from each other if The Flume is to be left as it is. Whether or not The Flume has always been part of AquaLand/Merrie England it doesn't mean that I have necessarily always thought of The Flume as in Merrie England - due to its more 'set-back' location from the rest of the area. I really think it's made out to be a bigger deal than it is, and if AT went to some sort of effort to separate The Flume from Mutiny Bay, it'd help.


If it's a whacking great turqoise Fish n Chips shop in the middle of post-apocalyptic valley - hell, if it's a whacking great turquoise roller-coaster plonked in Forbidden Valley, or if it's a coaster themed around racing cars in the middle of a pre-historic land - if it's an ugly green and red monstrosity sat nicely at the side of the view to the Towers - then I agree there is a big problem with lack of theming coherency. The Flume I think is not much of an issue.

And if it is THAT much of an issue, I suppose we could all expect AT to take money out of the £6 million budget and re-theme The Flume... and then all moan when corners are cut elsewhere. :)
AstroDan

Whilst it is regrettable, and somewhat odd, that Alton Towers have for whatever reason, be it sponsorship, financial or whatever - not chosen to re-theme and incorporate the Flume into the new area, I don't think it is the make or break situation. Theming clashes, whilst regrettable surely, are nothing new - and indeed occur at decent theme parks across the world.

Alton Towers' main examples would be Rita and indeed the practically themeless Corkscrew to Ug Land, Fresh Fish and Chips to Forbidden Valley and the odd clash of Spinball Whizzer to, say Storybookland. Phantasialand can also offer a Pirates 4D attraction housed on an old fashioned Berlin Street. Europa-Park meanwhile have decided that the French are mad-keen on the Space Race, so decided to install Euro-Sat, which bears no resemblence to any kind of French architecture or style whatsoever.

Not that this is an excuse that say's it's OK to have the Flume as some garish accessory to the new area. I just hope that, whilst there are obviously reasons for the Flume being left, that they endeavour to make some kind of arrangement for it, and if not for 2008, that as soon as the sponsorship runs out, that they consider looking at it then.

:)
LiamSAFC

Well the more I think about it, the more I start to wonder. I mean lets be honest, we daren't dream in this lifetime, but what if, a remote possibility that land did become free, and the Flume was bunged off. Just remember, the flumes area is a HUGE patch of land that could even be developed into a New Area if you really think. I hate to admit it but one day the Flume will close, and something will have to be done, it can't become unused like...ooo...lets say for example...Black Hole Tent? :wink:
AstroDan

Of course the Flume will reach its end someday. And the land will be re-worked, hopefully into the Mutiny Bay idea. Perhaps a Splash ride of sorts - after all Pirates are Marine animals and water rides suit them best!

:D
LiamSAFC

[quote=""AstroDan""]Of course the Flume will reach its end someday. And the land will be re-worked, hopefully into the Mutiny Bay idea. Perhaps a Splash ride of sorts - after all Pirates are Marine animals and water rides suit them best!

:D[/quote]

That idea would have to be incorporated and worked on. Although I see where your coming from with the idea that Pirates are supposed to be at sea, the fact is we already have a Splash Battle, so why not a Dark Ride, where Pirates face war and battle with each other or something.

Of course, I'm a Flumey Boy myself :lol:
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mezza
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Thing with the Flume is that it's never really fitted in to an area's theme.

Well, I guess, back in the days of Aqualand, it fitted in, in the sense that it's a water ride, and the 'theme' of Aqualand was water.

But the Log Flume didn't fit in with Merrie England, The Flume Unplugged didn't fit in with Merrie England, and now The Flume Unplugged won't fit in with Mutiny Bay.

So in that sense, I think AT have always regarded The Flume to be separate from the Merrie England area.

The other thing is, I guess if The Flume didn't get it's retheme in 04, then I'm certain it wouldhave been rethemed this time round. But AT did spend some time and effort tarting it up relatively recently, so it's not really worth them ripping all that themeing out and starting again so soon. The issue of the Imperial Leather sponsorship complicates things further, too.

Also, I think most people here conclude that the Flume's days are numbered... I think it'll be gone from the park altogether within the next five years - another reason why it's not worth retheming.

Also, you couldn't do the retheming cheaply. You'd need all new boats, and the ride covers a big area, with lots of signage etc. It's not like retheming The Tea Cups which will probably cost very little.

So yes, it's a shame about the clash but I don't think it would make any sense to retheme it.
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